Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[wil]

Concerning streaming services, and unrelated to your (Sound of Tao) post, the elephant in the room is the amount of "crap" that is available on these services. Why? Simply because all of these services play a numbers game, claiming that they offer tens of millions of releases. What they in fact do is offer multiple versions of the same album, but from a large number of dodgy labels. There is absolutely no quality control - neither in terms of sound quality, nor in terms of the metadata. They basically issue anything that the labels will provide.

Qobuz, which markets itself towards audiophiles and claims to have a curated catalog, is no different from any other.

"High resolution" on these services is a joke. 99% of the time it is just Redbook up-sampled.

Obviously, there is a lot to like as well - I would not have both a Qobuz and Spotify subscription otherwise.

Do you have a reliable source you can share with us regarding “99% of Hi-Rez on Qobuz is Redbook resampled”?

I’m sure some of it is. I don’t think it’s possible for them to carefully curate the massive amount of material they are providing. But is most of it up-sampled?

Personally, I really don’t care about sampling rates. If the music is well recorded/mastered it’s going to sound good. And you could spend multiple lifetimes going through great recordings streamed through Qobuz. (This is not to imply there are not just as many poor recordings, but they are easy to avoid especially if you don’t listen to pop music).

 

[Rexp]

My limited experience with modern digital gear tells me:
1.You don't have to spend fortunes to get good playback.
2. Streaming sounds as good as file/disc playback.
3. The SQ is 100% down to the recording quality.
4. The majority of modern digital recordings suck.
5. There are some older analogue recordings that have been expertly digitized to sound like the original.

 

[hopkins]

Do you have a reliable source you can share with us regarding “99% of Hi-Rez on Qobuz is Redbook resampled”?

I’m sure some of it is. I don’t think it’s possible for them to carefully curate the massive amount of material they are providing. But is most of it up-sampled?

Personally, I really don’t care about sampling rates. If the music is well recorded/mastered it’s going to sound good. And you could spend multiple lifetimes going through great recordings streamed through Qobuz. (This is not to imply there are not just as many poor recordings, but they are easy to avoid especially if you don’t listen to pop music).

No I don't have stats. It was a figure of speech. There is absolutely no control by Qobuz on the files they receive. Anyone willing to pay a small fee can upload to Qobuz, and when doing so you can provide versions in different sample rates.

I am perfectly happy with 44khz, but I was just pointing this out.

Of course you can avoid the poor quality labels, but how many people bother doing so?

This is all part of what makes the "digital" experience disappointing for many.

 

[twitch]

Digital delay has been used since the '70's, but didn't become universally used until the late '80's!

thank you, you have been taken off the 'clueless list' !

 

[wil]

No I don't have stats. It was a figure of speech. There is absolutely no control by Qobuz on the files they receive. Anyone willing to pay a small fee can upload to Qobuz, and when doing so you can provide versions in different sample rates.

I am perfectly happy with 44khz, but I was just pointing this out.

Of course you can avoid the poor quality labels, but how many people bother doing so?

This is all part of what makes the "digital" experience disappointing for many.

My limited experience with modern digital gear tells me:
1.You don't have to spend fortunes to get good playback.
2. Streaming sounds as good as file/disc playback.
3. The SQ is 100% down to the recording quality.
4. The majority of modern digital recordings suck.
5. There are some older analogue recordings that have been expertly digitized to sound like the original.

I agree with everything except #4! While it is technically true, that in sheer #’s, most modern digital recordings are poor, it just doesn’t matter to me.

The overwhelming volume of recorded music is POP music and most doesn’t sound good for various reasons from auto-tuned vocals to careless mastering to just being shallow, crappy music to begin with (IMHO naturally). Since I don’t listen to this music anyway, the poor sound quality has no effect on me.

Like I keep saying, there’s is a weath of modern recordings available on other genre that is both musically compelling and good/great sounding.

This is not to say I’m not sometimes disappointed by sound quality on music I otherwise like. But I just move on to greener pastures. For this music-munching cow, the field of green grass stretches far to the horizon!

 

[Al M.]

I agree with everything except #4! While it is technically true, that in sheer #’s, most modern digital recordings are poor, it just doesn’t matter to me.

The overwhelming volume of recorded music is POP music and most doesn’t sound good for various reasons from auto-tuned vocals to careless mastering to just being shallow, crappy music to begin with (IMHO naturally). Since I don’t listen to this music anyway, the poor sound quality has no effect on me.

Like I keep saying, there’s is a weath of modern recordings available on other genre that is both musically compelling and good/great sounding.

This is not to say I’m not sometimes disappointed by sound quality on music I otherwise like. But I just move on to greener pastures! For this music-munching cow, the field of green grass stretches far to the horizon!

+ 1000

There's tons of good to great sounding classical and jazz (the types of music I listen to most), as well as other genres, on digital. You can even find great sounding classic rock if you are looking beyond the next best crap mastering.

 

[bonzo75]

1.You don't have to spend fortunes to get good playback.
2. The SQ is largely down to the recording quality.
3. The majority of modern recordings suck.

Slightly fixed it to generalise across hifi

 

[Al M.]

+ 1000

There's tons of good to great sounding classical and jazz (the types of music I listen to most), as well as other genres, on digital. You can even find great sounding classic rock if you are looking beyond the next best crap mastering.

Yeah, I knew you would react with a laugh, Bonzo. You are so clueless.

 

[bonzo75]

Yeah, I knew you would react with a laugh, Bonzo. You are so clueless.

yeah, I knew you would react with a laugh at him too, Lagonda.

 

[Al M.]

yeah, I knew you would react with a laugh at him too, Lagonda.

I guess he was more reacting to my laugh comment, but he can correct me if he feels the need to.

 

[bonzo75]

I guess he was more reacting to my laugh comment, but he can correct me if he feels the need to.

no one wants to correct you, Al. We need something to laugh at

 

[rando]

I'm sure someone here will remember.

How much did you have to pay for three balls when carnivals switched from using plates to vinyl records?


The sound of a record breaking was pretty thrilling, I thought! Levying this against the bulk costs of unwanted CD might prove helpful in personally solving the equation of whether digital can get to vinyl sound and at what price.

 

[Lagonda]

yeah, I knew you would react with a laugh at him too, Lagonda.

We are all just so predictable !

 

[Lagonda]

I guess he was more reacting to my laugh comment, but he can correct me if he feels the need to.

Ked just loves digital, but only when it's strapped to giant tubes by some nice Polish fellows ! And placed on some rare hardwood discs and footers ! He also listens to rock, but only to compare, and preferably original analog recordings made by 2 bands end sixtie, beginning seventies before digital was anywhere in the recording chain !

 

[SoundMann]

Ked just loves digital, but only when it's strapped to giant tubes by some nice Polish fellows ! And placed on some rare hardwood discs and footers ! He also listens to rock, but only to compare, and preferably original analog recordings made by 2 bands end sixtie, beginning seventies before digital was anywhere in the recording chain !

There were only a handful of records which had digital anywhere in the chain before '79.

 

[Lagonda]

There were only a handful of records which had digital anywhere in the chain before '79.

Exactly, i always buy vinyl from before 1980, and anything with a barcode on the back is of limits Right now i am listening to a original Fleetwood Mac album from 1969, from when Christine McVie was still Perfect and only a guest artist ! Great sound, Mick Fleetwood must be among my 3 favorite drummers of all time

 

[Al M.]

Ked just loves digital, but only when it's strapped to giant tubes by some nice Polish fellows !

True, but nothing beats some rare original vinyl pressings of classical music recordings from the Golden Age of Analog which only he and a few others have heard and which he has exclusive knowledge of (and we thus have to take him by his word on his claims if we want or not), which he always can beat us over the head with. As you say, it's all predictable .

 

[twitch]

Exactly, i always buy vinyl from before 1980, and anything with a barcode on the back is of limits

Gillian Welch, David Rawlings, ACONY records, post 1980 ..... ANALOG and no bar code !

 

[Lagonda]

Gillian Welch, David Rawlings, ACONY records, post 1980 ..... ANALOG and no bar code !
[/QUOTE]
And good music, i have some on CD !

 

[Bruce B]

Pop quizz: digital or analog ?

It's digital because we're listening to it over the internet..... next?