Can You Believe This-The Government Wants Us To Go EV but In So Doing They Will impose a gas surcharge

[Ron Resnick]

Respectfully, I think people are misinterpreting Mike’s criticisms of Tesla. Obviously, Mike has a professional and personal interest in Honda, but that per se does not render inaccurate his criticisms of Tesla.

Isn't the existence of early quality control problems with the Model 3 accepted as a fact?

Don’t we all agree that Hondas, along with other Japanese brands, are typically bulletproof reliable because it is easy to get things right when you make hundreds of thousands of the same product? If a Japanese electronics company made our high-end audio equipment with volumes in the thousands rather than the dozens wouldn’t the components be more reliable for a fraction of the price?

 

[steve williams]

Respectfully, I think people are misinterpreting Mike’s criticisms of Tesla. Obviously, Mike has a professional and personal interest in Honda, but that per se does not render inaccurate his criticisms of Tesla.

Isn't the existence of early quality control problems with the Model 3 accepted as a fact?

Don’t we all agree that Hondas, along with other Japanese brands, are typically bulletproof reliable because it is easy to get things right when you make hundreds of thousands of the same product? If a Japanese electronics company made our high-end audio equipment with volumes in the thousands rather than the dozens wouldn’t the components be more reliable for a fraction of the price?

I totally agree with everything you say.Tesla is far from perfect and Musk although a visionary is a whack a doo. But having said that this is not a bunch of fan boys spreading the word. This is people buying into a new technology that has a lot of growing pains to endure before it is turning out the volume of Honda or any of the major auto makers for that matter.

Here is a question to ponder. How many drivers of ICE autos trade their cars for an EV vs how many owners of an EV trade their car for an ICE. This is not about being fanboys and these are the comments that I find bothersome because I agree with perceptions of quality control or the lack thereof.

FWIW I bought a Honda Accord for my daughter in 1986 (in the younger years of Honda ) and it must have been the last car off the production line at the end of the Friday run as it was a true lemon. Everything mechanical that could go wrong , did go wrong. Honda fixed it but it kept breaking down and we were basically told "that's life" as there was nothing they could do. I sold the car.

Yes people had Model 3 issues in the initial release BUT many of them were given NEW Model 3 cars. Honda didn't do that for me

It's all how we see it Ron. Either the glass is half full or it is half empty. For me the glass is half full as I see the future and all of the benefits with an EV. And this is coming from a guy who still owns 2 high performance Mercedes. I've made my case as to my exit plan. Others have scoffed and given their plans all of whom condemn the EV industry pushed by a bunch of fan boys but for me to be able to say I am helping the global problem rather than giving up and shrugging my shoulders with a "who cares, anyway" is my small step to take. Once home storage batteries ae improved as I have stated before, my plan is to store all electricity I am not using and to charge my cars with that. That takes me totally off the grid. I just can't think of anything that would intrigue me here more than the thought "of free".

We've only seen the tip of this very large iceberg. Over the past 2 years I have changed many things in our house to make us more energy efficient as well as taking other precautions to avoid being a polluter. I am far from a fanatic but by the same token I don't consider myself a fanboy.

Heck my sound system is solar powered so the thought of my car being powered by solar intrigues me

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, you're no Honda fanboy aren't you?

the way your comment is worded it's a bit of a conflict. i'm going to assume you are saying i am a fanboy.

i'm an automobile industry professional. i believe in the franchise dealership approach to automobile distribution. i'm critical of Honda and other manufacturers when it is appropriate, and am critical of other competing dealers, Government and regulations when that is appropriate.

sure; part of me personally bleeds Honda blue (internationally Honda uses red as it's color) as anyone long (39 years) connected to any brand would and should be. and Honda has earned an unequaled long term market respect as a responsible and innovative manufacturer. every day i train people to sell Honda. i'm also the guy who deals with customer complaints that my other mangers can't solve......some of which are product issues.

i have a healthy respect for what Tesla has accomplished, and am in awe of the how Musk has played the game and found market cap and benefit of the doubt far in excess of what the facts support. can that magic act continue?

 

[NorthStar]

If I was truly a Honda fanboy I would be driving a Honda.
If I was a Tesla ...
If I was Bugatti ...
If I was a Porsche ...

EV is a better way to go and can only expand from here ...

 

[steve williams]

i have a healthy respect for what Tesla has accomplished, and am in awe of the how Musk has played the game and found market cap and benefit of the doubt far in excess of what the facts support. can that magic act continue?
[/JV QUOTE]

i totally agree

I do believe him to be a modern day visionary with an idea as to help future mankind. Having said that he is a whack a doo But can charm a snake

I truly understand that when people talk EV they automatically think Tesla. They are the gorilla in the industry but rest assured the hand writing is on the wall. The EV will become smaller, more affordable with a battery that will only get better. Competition will come from everywhere both domestic and foreign. So Tesla has to have their eyes in the rear mirror

 

[Ron Resnick]

If Porsche releases a Taycan at the same price point as the Model S and with similar equipment and range, what are the reasons someone might prefer the Model S over such a Taycan?

 

[Folsom]

I’m not very excited about the idea of loss of dealerships. As is we are starting to see reversals on a lot of “gig” economy stuff, which is exactly how that feels. Who’s to say certified Tesla places won’t come and go constantly, with no recourse for when the one you chose is failing and you’re one of the last customers?

I’d love to buy a Porsche EV over a Tesla. But it’s literally 3x the price over a Tesla (the ones people buy, not the fantasy never sold $35k version). At $150k it doesn’t appear much like a family car... or a grocery getter... which begs the question, why the hell does it have 4 doors???????????

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . why the hell does it have 4 doors???????????

+1

But I am sure a 2 door coupe is in the works.

 

[Empirical Audio]

If Porsche releases a Taycan at the same price point as the Model S and with similar equipment and range, what are the reasons someone might prefer the Model S over such a Taycan?

Totally debugged for starters. Also, you can have a sports car with the space of a sedan, so you can take your friends out to dinner or travel the country. Also, where are the Porsche Superchargers????

 

[Folsom]

“Debugged” .... Porsche is reliable like Honda, I doubt they’ll dump a buggy car on the market. In fact I think it has been delayed to make sure it is right. And both are 4 door.

Hopefully Porsche won’t be weird about charging and go universal/easy house install.

 

[DaveC]

Once home storage batteries ae improved as I have stated before, my plan is to store all electricity I am not using and to charge my cars with that...

Inexpensive, environmentally friendly and energy-dense energy storage solutions would completely change the world and the balance of technology... EVs would clearly be the best choice for cars, for electricity wind and solar have enough energy return on energy invested to make sense in areas that are sunny or windy already, but connecting them to the grid and energy storage is the issue that makes it impractical to implement for a majority percentage of our power use. We have some good solutions, but not everywhere. In some places water can be pumped up in elevation then dropped through hydroelectric turbines. In other places air can be pumped into massive underground voids at ridiculous pressure and released to turn turbines. Both solutions are incomplete and don't cover use for transportation. What we need is simply a miracle battery, a Mr Fusion type device... it seems like a pipe dream now, but in the future such tech will surely exist. The problem is we need it now, maybe aliens will drop down and give us a hand?

 

[DaveC]

I’m not very excited about the idea of loss of dealerships. As is we are starting to see reversals on a lot of “gig” economy stuff, which is exactly how that feels. Who’s to say certified Tesla places won’t come and go constantly, with no recourse for when the one you chose is failing and you’re one of the last customers?

I’d love to buy a Porsche EV over a Tesla. But it’s literally 3x the price over a Tesla (the ones people buy, not the fantasy never sold $35k version). At $150k it doesn’t appear much like a family car... or a grocery getter... which begs the question, why the hell does it have 4 doors???????????

Yup, most people don't understand how much work it is to sell stuff. If a manufacturer goes direct there is no way they can sell at the same prices they sold to dealers for, because they will need to spend a ton of effort to deal with customers. For a larger company that means paying full time salespeople and having a new sales department. For cars that require service centers I'm not sure I get the direct model, it's basically the same as corporate owned car dealers.

Cutting out the middleman sounds great, but they add a lot more value to the transaction than many give them credit for.

 

[steve williams]

My fantasy will be what is beyond the EV at a personal level. We talk about road taxes and being eco friendly but 2 generations from now the auto as we know it now will be vastly different.

It may not be the roads that are overused but maybe the "air" above will be how we travel. There are also many different companies researching travel below ground at over 600 mph.

These are exciting times.

 

[steve williams]

And how about this as a slight twist on auto insurance..........Tesla owners in California were the first to be offered auto insurance that is 20-30% less than traditional insurance companies...This is gradually being released across the nation.

https://www.tesla.com/support/insurance

 

[KeithR]

And how about this as a slight twist on auto insurance..........Tesla owners in California were the first to be offered auto insurance that is 20-30% less than traditional insurance companies...This is gradually being released across the nation.

https://www.tesla.com/support/insurance

Lol. that’s because Tesla’s are more expensive to insure in the first place - dirty secret for a long time

Tesla getting in the insurance business is hilarious

 

[DaveC]

My fantasy will be what is beyond the EV at a personal level. We talk about road taxes and being eco friendly but 2 generations from now the auto as we know it now will be vastly different.

It may not be the roads that are overused but maybe the "air" above will be how we travel. There are also many different companies researching travel below ground at over 600 mph.

These are exciting times.

E-bikes are currently a good use for Li batteries imo, it can make it much easier for people to ride bikes and make all the difference in people's choice of vehicle to commute with... lots more people will hopefully choose e-bike over a 4-wheeled alternative.

A friend of mine recently got a 6" full suspension mt bike with a battery... weighs a bit over 50 lbs. Not sure what to think of it TBH. Cool in some ways but it's halfway to being a motorcycle. IDK...

 

[Folsom]

Steve I can’t say that sounds very exciting. What’s maybe a couple hundred a year vs the premium of a Tesla? What would be appealing is if it was a innovative better insurance.

It’s sorta ironic that a supposed earth saving vehicle has to contend with it’s own ability to have ludicrous acceleration. Two different markets that affect eachother.

 

[Folsom]

E-bikes are currently a good use for Li batteries imo, it can make it much easier for people to ride bikes and make all the difference in people's choice of vehicle to commute with... lots more people will hopefully choose e-bike over a 4-wheeled alternative.

A friend of mine recently got a 6" full suspension mt bike with a battery... weighs a bit over 50 lbs. Not sure what to think of it TBH. Cool in some ways but it's halfway to being a motorcycle. IDK...

We really need a lot of people switching to 2 wheels, otherwise we kind of have a growing traffic of silent motorcycles. It’s better to be around other 2 wheels than 4 wheels. But on what level should we celebrate becoming like some Asian country of mopeds but with EV bikes? Hmm.

In NYC if your bicycle goes over a certain speed without you pedaling it’s considered a vehicle. All that law made happen is people now pretend to pedal when they see police!

 

[steve williams]

Lol. that’s because Tesla’s are more expensive to insure in the first place - dirty secret for a long time

Tesla getting in the insurance business is hilarious

So how is this possible Keith. My son previously had Geico and now has Tesla and is saving $300/year.

How does this make sense with respect to your last comment

 

[KeithR]

Geico charges more for Tesla than its competitors in the first place.