Can You Believe This-The Government Wants Us To Go EV but In So Doing They Will impose a gas surcharge

[NorthStar]

Well, phones are no longer just phones, so cars will soon no longer be just cars. They will be entertainment center cocoons to isolate you from the world outside, to babysit your kids, to hold your pets, all while you do other things. Some see fun, cool, the experience. I see expense and complication. My two daughters don't even think about cars or express any interest in getting one. I think they see them as a hassle to own. They use uber, borrow our hand-me downs when home on vacation from school, or hitch rides from others. It will be interesting to see if they ever buy one.

With your phone you can monitor your hi-fi stereo system @ home...some of them.
You can check for bandits who want to steal your record's collection.

If EV cars can do all of that and more for you...I see no better way than to go EV all the way.

For the days you want to break free you just go sailing ...
If ever I meet you Peter it has to be on your sail boat...and sailing with you the surface of the sea, free, without phone and reproduced music...just the sounds of the razor cutting water under the hull, with the keel, and the winds in the sail.

* Your two daughters are smart, very. They love sailing too?

 

[KeithR]

Gas prices must be up in SoCal as I just filled my car for just under $100

Guy with a supercharged V8 AMG chirping about gas prices Buy a Honda from Mike, Steve and enjoy the gas savings.

And somehow you don't blame our local politicians and CARB that mandate switches to idiotic winter blends and gasoline that can't be imported as well as increase gas taxes significantly while raiding them in down economies and even where the $ doesn't go to improve our insanely crappy roads.

 

[NorthStar]

This's just in ...
• https://headtopics.com/us/tesla-und...throttled-batteries-to-hide-fire-risk-8727228

On Tesla forum they back off ...

 

[Steve williams]

Guy with a supercharged V8 AMG chirping about gas prices by Buy a Honda from Mike, Steve and enjoy the gas savings.

And somehow you don't blame our local politicians and CARB that mandate switches to idiotic winter blends and gasoline that can't be imported as well as increase gas taxes significantly while raiding them in down economies and even where the $ doesn't go to improve our insanely crappy roads.

Keith
sadly you just don’t get it when I come to discuss gas prices
it’s not even worth discussing cuz you cant see the trees. for the forest
Dont you read people’s post or do you always make your uniniformed statenents.
As for Honda. I posted here that I bought my daughter one in 1986. It was the biggest POS lemon I’ve ever owned and Honda never made it right so we sold it

while you keep telling people what they should buy Keith I’m afraid you’re going to be the last man our so don’t forget to turn off the lights. im betting it costs you just as much to fill your car as I do mine.

as for blaming local politicians Keith I would tell you to thank your gasoline lobbyists for all of that.

as I’ve said time and again Keith if you can find some thing better than free to rum your car like I plan on doing mine I’m all ears.

BTW perusing Tesla Model S cars on their website shows they’d all come with FREE supercharger. I can drive my car ( when I get it) free across the country. I’m waiting on how you can call me and see me one in that Keith

simply put I refuse to pay the rising cost of both gasoline and electricity. I’ve taken the first of two steps to obviate that. I produce enough excess of solar that rather than banking it in the SDGE grid the excess is going into my garage battery once I deem them ready for prime time

 

[Steve williams]

2. The "farting seats" ... Steve, you are joking right?

nope. True.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/tesla-new-fart-app/

 

[KeithR]

Oil is $52, Steve. Not high at all nor are $1.57 current gasoline futures.

I pay $40-50 to fill up my M2 which in horrible LA traffic still gets 17mpg. Gas prices are simply not an issue for luxury car ownership in our day of TT V6s with 8sp trannies. It’s simple math.

 

[Steve williams]

Oil is $52, Steve. Not high at all nor are $1.57 current gasoline futures.

I pay $40-50 to fill up my M2 which in horrible LA traffic still gets 17mpg. Gas prices are simply not an issue for luxury car ownership in our day of TT V6s with 8sp trannies. It’s simple math.

it Is dimple math because you’re going to be $40-50 higher than the zero I’ll be paying. Take your blinkers off Keith. It’s you who are rationalizing. When you can beat free let’s talk.

 

[NorthStar]

nope. True.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/tesla-new-fart-app/

I'll be damned.
______

Just saw this ... Tesla > Canada = Battery
• https://electricautonomy.ca/2019/10/04/tesla-acquires-canadian-battery-specialist-hibar-systems/

 

[DonH50]

it Is simple math because you’re going to be $40-50 higher than the zero I’ll be paying. Take your blinkers off Keith. It’s you who are rationalizing. When you can beat free let’s talk.

Free, no, you have to make the investment in solar and maintenance and all that jazz. It's an investment. And while subsidies are great for those getting them, they and everyone else not getting them, are footing the bill one way or another.

The hypocrisy on my part is that, if the subsidy were higher and my ability to sell electricity back to the "grid" greater, I'd probably have gotten those solar panels. As it is, the financial break even point was in the 22 ~ 27 year timeframe, and would impact our retirement plans. The counter argument is that I am helping to destroy the planet, ruining my children's future, etc.

How much electricity in Wh does it take to charge a Tesla? I am sure there are studies showing cost of gas and maintenance for ICE cars vs. cost of electricity and maintenance of EVs after the initial purchase, but since it depends so heavily upon local costs we need some sort of base units (say Wh and gallons) to calculate "our" (local) cost.

In my case, I'd guess gas is much lower than what Steve has to pay, not sure about electricity (our rural coop is on the high side). There are other factors, natch. The gas station just down the road is very convenient for me, albeit about 10 cents/gal higher than the big city where I work, but stopping near home is much more convenient for me than dealing with the traffic mess closer to work (or waiting until the big stations near work open at 6 am when I normally get in around 5 am). Similarly I pay a lot more for electricity at home and the cost of solar I just cannot justify right now so an EV is less appealing (aside from the cold weather issues of low battery life and need for something that can get through a lot of snow).

Some of the arguments I have read (not necessarily here) say I should be willing to pay the extra in up-front cost and inconvenience for the good of the planet, my kids, or whatever, but instead I selfishly choose to live in the here and now. When facing a relentless barrage of folk telling me how ignorant, mean, evil, whatever I am at some point I just tune out and flip on the stereo.

 

[Steve williams]

I hear you Don and I understand. For me, my ROI is just under 4 years

SDGE is the most expensive in the nation and as I stated here several times we can pay as much as $0.45 per kWh which is simply outrageous
I truly respect everyone in their decision making process. For my wife and I and where we are in our lives,
this makes the best sense for us

The world is changing quicker than we know and the ICE Age is on the dawn of extinction (for me at least). Heck my sound system is powered totally by solar energy. I was given heat by several members here who suggested the sound would be terrible. This couldn't be farther from the truth

 

[Empirical Audio]

$47 Billion in oil and gas subsidies every year - we pay these. Your gas costs more than you think. Gas and oil dependence makes us slaves to corrupt countries like Saudi Arabia and puts our military in harms way, not to mention the cost to tax payers to protect that foreign oil. Big bucks. Time to stop this. These two together are estimated to cost every single taxpayer $500-$775 per year. That's another $65/month in gas prices that you don't see. This is eliminated with electric cars.

Nationwide Superchargers, which are free for S and X owners are transitioning to solar power. Some already have. These are primarily for vacation and business travel, not commuting.

I don't care where your gas station is, mine is closer, in my garage.

 

[Ron Resnick]

47 Billion in oil and gas subsidies every year - we pay these. Your gas costs more than you think. Gas and oil dependence makes us slaves . . .

1) Are you unaware of the fact that the U.S. is the biggest oil producer in the world? Your point about U.S. oil dependence is thus obviously false.





2) “Slaves”? Really? Hysterical hyperbole never helps to advance any discussion.

3) Please provide an authoritative citation for your assertion about “47 Billion in oil and gas subsidies every year.”

 

[Empirical Audio]

$47 Billion in oil and gas subsidies every year - we pay these. Your gas costs more than you think. Gas and oil dependence makes us slaves to corrupt countries like Saudi Arabia and puts our military in harms way, not to mention the cost to tax payers to protect that foreign oil. Big bucks. Time to stop this. These two together are estimated to cost every single taxpayer $500-$775 per year. That's another $65/month in gas prices that you don't see. This is eliminated with electric cars.

Nationwide Superchargers, which are free for S and X owners are transitioning to solar power. Some already have. These are primarily for vacation and business travel, not commuting.

I don't care where your gas station is, mine is closer, in my garage.

That is irrelevant to the fact that we still pay the subsidies and we still pay to protect foreign oil with our military.

 

[Ron Resnick]

That is irrelevant to the fact that we still pay the subsidies and we still pay to protect foreign oil with our military.

This is your response to my three critiques of your Post #452?

Are you able to respond directly and precisely to my three critiques, or shall I take your Post #454 as a admission that my three critiques of your Post #452 are accurate?

 

[Empirical Audio]

This is your response to my three critiques of your Post #452?

Are you able to respond directly and precisely to my three critiques, or shall I take your Post #454 as a admission that my three critiques of your Post #452 are accurate?

I am aware of all of this. It's irrelevant, like I said. It's as if the US is still beholding to all of these foreign powers. Makes no difference in our policies so far. Then again, maybe Saudi Arabia is just a good place for another Trump Tower.

If I was still driving ICE, my cost for gas would be about $8/gallon if you factor in the defense and subsidies cost. And that is not including the subsidies for ethanol corn growers. It's not as cheap as you think. Add all of these "hidden" costs in and the electric car starts to be pretty cheap to operate.

 

[Steve williams]

I am aware of all of this. It's irrelevant, like I said. It's as if the US is still beholding to all of these foreign powers. Makes no difference so far. Then again, maybe Saudi Arabia is just a good place for another Trump Tower.

Hyperbole or not, I tend to agree with the subsidies quoted. Regardless of whether the USA is the largest producer it does protect its interests around the world . So yes we pay for that

 

[NorthStar]

 

[NorthStar]

Harley-Davidson is going "LiveWire" (electric by 2020); Tesla should join the motorcycle market.



$30,000 ^ expensive ... click on for more (on that bike ^ above) / Tesla

 

[Empirical Audio]

Sw

Harley-Davidson is going "LiveWire" (electric by 2020); Tesla should join the motorcycle market.



$30,000 ^ expensive ... click on for more (on that bike ^ above) / Tesla

Sweeet. I can't wait to see the Tesla pickup truck in November. Very secretive so far.

 

[NorthStar]

Sweeet. I can't wait to see the Tesla pickup truck in November. Very secretive so far.

But trucks have a minimum of four wheels ...

* If trucks can have batteries with a range of say 500 miles, that would be swell.
I'm sure batteries will expand their mileage as the days, months go by (in a year and three).
Ontario, Canada has a good battery team of engineers.
• https://electrek.co/2019/10/05/tesla-quietly-acquires-battery-manufacturer/

According to an archive version of its website, the company specialized in building manufacturing equipment for different processes in battery manufacturing:

“Among Hibar’s latest technology offerings are its advanced Automated Vacuum Filling Systems for Lithium-ion battery applications for use in Hybrid Electric Vehicles, computer notebooks and similar products.”​

More recently, it ventured into making a full “high-speed Lithium-ion battery manufacturing system”.

Last year, it was awarded $2 million CAD from the National Research Council of Canada Industrial Research Assistance Program (NRC IRAP) to build the system in Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada:

“$2 million to support the development of a high-speed Lithium-ion battery manufacturing system to meet growing market demand for mass electric energy storage solutions.”​

It’s unclear if this battery manufacturing system has been deployed yet, but they have been making battery cell manufacturing equipment for a long time.