CD Ripping: Sound Quality Comparisons Between File Playback & Optical Disc Playback

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,347
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
Thank you, Alex and Bob, for this background information.

The concept is that one figuratively “rips open” the bits encoded on the CD when one downloads a CD to a hard drive.

I find funny the words we audiophiles use to make our hobby seem cooler. We who love the hobby don’t need to make it sound cooler to ourselves, and people outside the hobby will not find the hobby cool no matter what trendy words we adopt to describe what we’re doing. :)
 
Last edited:

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,006
512
1,740
Snohomish, WA
www.pugetsoundstudios.com
Why the word “ripping”? One doesn’t rip open an aluminum compact disc; one rips open a teabag, one rips open a bag of potato chips.
.

I'm with you Ron... never understood the terminology. Another one I can't stand are "Needle Drops".... I would NEVER drop the needle of my Coralstone!!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ron Resnick

sefischer1

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2018
102
40
115
Southern California
Why the word “ripping”? One doesn’t rip open an aluminum compact disc; one rips open a teabag, one rips open a bag of potato chips.

Is “ripping” supposed to make audiophiles feel like they’re doing something athletic? Instead of getting ripped abs they can get ripped (computer files) without leaving the couch?

What is being “ripped”? Can audiophiles really rip in half like a sheet of paper a Redbook CD? So nothing is being ripped, agreed?

How about “transferring from CD to hard drive”? In fact nothing is being damaged in any way, let alone ripped.
Maybe from the old days of blatantly pirating music, as in "ripped-off".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ron Resnick

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
I've already checked for that, and it has nothing to do whatsoever with the term "rip-off".
_____

"Originally it meant to rip music out of Amiga games. Later the term was used to extract WAV or MP3 format files from digital audio CDs, but got applied as well to extract the contents of any media, most notably DVD and Blu-ray discs."
_____


"Despite its name, ripping programs have nothing to do with the slang phrase "rip off," which means "stealing." There are various explanations as to the derivation of the term. According to one common theory, the programs are called rippers because the digital copying process can be very fast -- especially when compared to the time it would take to re-record sound or video from the source output. However, the term may actually derived from raster image processing (RIPping):

I actually heard the term "ripping" many years (20?) ago specifically applied to the conversion of analog video to digital format; at the time, I actually understood it as being derived from the acronym RIP: Raster Image Processor. I.e., it referred to what a physical piece of hardware did: rasterizing a stream of analog video frames. I'm guessing that it then got a bit more generic, covering analog-to-digital conversion of other media, in particular vinyl and tape audio. Small step, then, to the current meaning: capturing any media and converting it to another format (nowadays mostly digital-to-digital)."

~ Ulf Olsson, Ericsson Sweden
_____
RIPping > Raster Image Processing​
 
Last edited:

sefischer1

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2018
102
40
115
Southern California
I've already checked for that, and it has nothing to do whatsoever with the term "rip-off".
_____

"Originally it meant to rip music out of Amiga games. Later the term was used to extract WAV or MP3 format files from digital audio CDs, but got applied as well to extract the contents of any media, most notably DVDand Blu-ray discs."
_____


"Despite its name, ripping programs have nothing to do with the slang phrase "rip off," which means "stealing." There are various explanations as to the derivation of the term. According to one common theory, the programs are called rippers because the digital copying process can be very fast -- especially when compared to the time it would take to re-record sound or video from the source output. However, the term may actually derived from raster image processing (RIPping):

I actually heard the term "ripping" many years (20?) ago specifically applied to the conversion of analog video to digital format; at the time, I actually understood it as being derived from the acronym RIP: Raster Image Processor. I.e., it referred to what a physical piece of hardware did: rasterizing a stream of analog video frames. I'm guessing that it then got a bit more generic, covering analog-to-digital conversion of other media, in particular vinyl and tape audio. Small step, then, to the current meaning: capturing any media and converting it to another format (nowadays mostly digital-to-digital)."

~ Ulf Olsson, Ericsson Sweden
_____
RIPping > Raster Image Processing​
https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/ripping-digital-extraction

Checking Wikipedia, the association of ripping with theft is dismissed. However, I'm reluctant to take any entry in Wikipedia, on a controversial topic, at face value. Does anyone recall the high legal stakes swirling around the practice of ripping music that was then made available to others. There would have certainly been some incentive for distancing the process of file sharing from the concept of theft in daily language.

The referenced link makes reference to Raster Image Processing (RIP) which is the process of an analog modulated electron beam scanning a display screen in rows of horizontal lines to make up a picture. Digitization of that sampled (each pixel) beam is actually an A/D conversion. The process of taking of transferring a CD image to files is nothing of the sort and the term "ripping", seems to have come into wide use and understanding for that purpose, not digitizing cassette or LP recordings. The latter, many years, and billions of rips later, may have been adopted in discussion of digitization of LP tracks, but that's certainly a more esoteric activity.

Language means what people think it means. If the term "ripping" has an pejorative or illicit connotation in the minds of many, then it does. Without an originator or explicit citations this point holds even more true.
 

Hi-FiGuy

Member Sponsor
Feb 23, 2015
2,235
754
385
Why the word “ripping”? One doesn’t rip open an aluminum compact disc; one rips open a teabag, one rips open a bag of potato chips.

Is “ripping” supposed to make audiophiles feel like they’re doing something athletic? Instead of getting ripped abs they can get ripped (computer files) without leaving the couch?

What is being “ripped”? Can audiophiles really rip in half like a sheet of paper a Redbook CD? So nothing is being ripped, agreed?

How about “transferring from CD to hard drive”? In fact nothing is being damaged in any way, let alone ripped.
These are the things that keep you awake at night? :p
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
I don't know what's in the mind of 7.65 billion people. In this thread, "ripping CDs" is extracting audio files, to me and I believe for the majority.

I don't remember the very first day I used the term "ripping" but I think it was after I used the term "burning". And because my heart and mind are pure I always saw good on those terms.

:) It's fun, 2019 is going to be fun.
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,006
512
1,740
Snohomish, WA
www.pugetsoundstudios.com
Ripping CD/DVD/Blu-ray..etc... is "ripping off" the owner of the content. Simple.......
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
The OP is extracting the audio from his own CDs for personal and simplified use in his computer.
The police is not interested in his own personal simplification and pleasure.
He gave us his opinion and personal experience between his extracted file playback versus disc playback. The term "ripping" here is a long time accepted term and without the need of government's (lawmakers and abiding law police officers) intervention.

This thread is about ripping music for personal use and comparing the resulting audio files to the digital optical disc. That's all. It is not about ripping off the filmmakers by illegally copying and redistributing their movies for financial gains, like some kids from some poor countries or some lowlife scam artists.

This is a very distinguished thread with very distinguished people in a very distinguished "ripping" (extracting comparison) environment. :)

See good in good.
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,006
512
1,740
Snohomish, WA
www.pugetsoundstudios.com
The OP is extracting the audio from his own CDs for personal and simplified use in his computer.
The police is not interested in his own personal simplification and pleasure.
.

Yes, the EULA states as such.
 

Hipper

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2011
68
11
83
Hertfordshire, UK
Many years ago we had prescriptions for ripping - what hardware and software should be used. And even better, people were burning copies that sound better than original CDs to use in their transports. I did a few, until I found that reflectivity of copies was much lower than from normal CDs and lasers were being operated at much higher power to read it, reducing their life significantly.

I would be interested to know more about CD-Rs (I presume) shortening the lifespan of lasers. I play mostly CD-Rs (compilations I make).

Tom should be reminded to back up his WAV files somewhere - I'm sure he knows this but I thought I'd mention it. It would be a shame to have to re-rip all those files.

I understood one of the reasons that digital files ripped from CDs may sound better than the originals is that computers buffer the files before playing whereas many/most CD players do not - mine does as it happens.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,347
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
I have to admit that I had quite a bit of fun searching around on Keith’s iPad last night connected to Tidal. I found easily the particular live version of “A Whiter Shade of Pale” I have been listening to repeatedly lately on Spotify.

So if I wanted the very highest sound quality on digital of, say, Sarah McLachlan’s Surfacing album, what would I have to buy? Is there an SACD version of that album? A 24/192 downloadable version?

I believe that when you play something on Tidal you don’t necessarily know the underlying resolution or provenance of the thing that you’re listening to, correct?
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
1,200
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
I have to admit that I had quite a bit of fun searching around on Keith’s iPad last night connected to Tidal. I found easily the particular live version of “A Whiter Shade of Pale” I have been listening to repeatedly lately on Spotify.

So if I wanted the very highest sound quality on digital of, say, Sarah McLachlan’s Surfacing album, what would I have to buy? Is there an SACD version of that album? A 24/192 downloadable version?

I believe that when you play something on Tidal you don’t necessarily know the underlying resolution or provenance of the thing that you’re listening to, correct?

Hi Ron,

Sorta, Tidal will tell you if it's a FLAC (lossless) or AAC (lossy) file and the bit rate/resolution, but not provenance. A lot of albums have multiple entries in Tidal, likely from different versions/remasterizations, so it pays to listen and compare, to find which sounds best, as there usually is one that does.

Normally, the best sounding of any given album will be an original CD from the 80s/90s. Any remaster will likely sound sharper/harder and compressed. SACDs are the exception, and those usually sound warmer/softer in comparison. Hi-res downloads I won't risk a comment, as they vary immensely.

Roon makes it easy to catalog your collection, even if you have multiple copies of the same album (like I do), as you can mark ("tag") whichever ones sound best for you, so you always go back to it.

There is a forum where folks usually delve into these discussions, of which version of album X sounds better, both CD and LP. It's the Steve Hoffman forum http://www.stevehoffman.tv, and while I don't always agree with the overall consensus there, it's a good starting point to locate "best versions of XYZ".

Hope this helps, and I'm glad you had fun with Roon/Tidal :)
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,347
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
Thank you, Alex!

“Any remaster will likely sound sharper/harder and compressed.”

I thought that later remastering efforts (more recent conversions from analog to digital) sounded better as the sound of quality of analog to digital converters improved over time?

I’m going to have enough trouble/fun comparing different tape versions of the same title. For now I will leave to others the task of comparing downloads.

Thank you, again!
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
1,200
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
Thank you, Alex!

“Any remaster will likely sound sharper/harder and compressed.”

I thought that later remastering efforts (more recent conversions from analog to digital) sounded better as the sound of quality of analog to digital converters improved over time?

I’m going to have enough trouble/fun comparing different tape versions of the same title. For now I will leave to others the task of comparing downloads.

Thank you, again!

Ron,

You thought correctly. Converters indeed have gotten much better, but unfortunately, the humans behind the controls haven't. I mean, I obviously made a pretty blunt generalization, as there are some exceptional remasters out there, but more often than not, and for the music I listen to, the older CDs are more dynamic, more relaxed, and just generally better sounding. Through the MSBs, a lot of that harshness perceived on these older CDs just aren't there, and they can be enjoyed fully.

The Hoffman forum, as I said, is a great source for "best versions of XYZ", but this forum is potentially a good source of information as well!

cheers,
Alex
 

BillS3132

New Member
Jun 24, 2019
1
0
1
80
As stated in my thread-starting post, yes, the idea here is to make the sonic path as similar as possible. It will be possible to compare the files to the CDs either through my Benchmark DAC3 HGC or through the DAC in my Oppo UDP-205. In all cases, the reading of the bits is done by the Oppo, either through its Blu-ray drive or through its USB 3 ports on the back of the unit. For playback via the Benchmark DAC, the Oppo's HDMI output feeds the Benchmark's coax digital input via my Kanex HDMI de-embedder. From the Benchmark DAC3, the signal goes via balanced analog into the Benchmark HPA4 line/headphone amp. For playback using the Oppo's internal DAC, I feed the Oppo's balanced analog outputs directly into another set of balanced analog inputs of my Benchmark HPA4.

All my discs are now ripped. As predicted, I was able to get everything onto two of the 512 GB Patriot Supersonic Rage 2 USB sticks with plenty of room to spare. I have plugged those into the two USB inputs in the back of the Oppo.

The only major learning curve during the ripping project was naming the folders. No single naming scheme seems optimal to me for both classical and pop music. The dBpoweramp default naming scheme is okay for pop, but terrible for classical discs. If I had it to do over again, I would consider different naming schemes on a disc-by-disc basis for easiest look up by top folder name. With more sophisticated playback software, or if I were using a video monitor in the system, perhaps this would not be a problem (I'm probably showing my ignorance here, but this is all new to me), but the Oppo Media Control app on my iPhone X only shows the top folder name as you scroll through until you pick a program. I will probably just go through and rename some of the top folders which were inadvertently given enigmatic names by dBpoweramp (such as the name of a conductor or soloist) before I began to catch on and modify the default names on a disc-by-disc basis.

In theory (at least the theory accepted by most audio engineers), as long as the bits in the files match the bits on the discs, if the same DAC is used to control the playback timing of those bits, the file playback should sound identical from the files or the discs, at least if the playback signal path prior to the DAC is similar and I've tried to make it as similar as I know how. The AccurateRip function of the dBpoweramp program provides a measure of confidence that the ripped files are bit-for-bit copies of the bits on the discs. Playback jitter should be the same since the timing will be controlled by the same DAC in my comparisons. Some may think that the computer files have an advantage over "live" playback from the optical disc in that the files are certain to be bit accurate, but any given read from the optical disc may not be. However, for most optical discs, the ripping to files done at high speed (4X to 24X normal playback speed) on the El Cheapo Dell DVD drive matched according to AccurateRip on the first pass. I imagine the Blu-ray reader of my Oppo is much more capable of reading CDs and other discs than the Dell, so it really shouldn't be an issue for the Oppo to read the disc in a bit-perfect manner each time.

One thing I didn't realize when I set out to compare the sound of files with disc playback using my Oppo: It seems impossible to switch quickly from the USB stick playback to the disc playback. Once USB playback is engaged, that mode is "sticky" in that there is no way to switch the output of the player to a synced disc playback. In fact, I don't think I can even get the player to play a disc while it is playing from the USB stick. I have to stop the USB playback and close the Oppo Media Control app first before the disc drive will operate. That process, plus cuing up the disc to the part I just listened to from the USB stick takes up to a minute or so.

Initial sonic impressions: So far, sonic differences are truly minimal. No night and day differences and sometimes I've even been fooled as to which source was playing since the Oppo remote control controls both the disc and USB playback once the USB playback is started up. Occasionally disc playback seems to have greater detail, clarity, and greater high frequency smoothness, as well as better replication of hall sound and recording noises in the venue or from the analog tape hiss. I have yet to feel that the file sounded better than the corresponding disc playback. But, again, it's very early in my experiments and the differences I occasionally think I hear seem quite tiny to me.

Stay tuned . . . .
A couple of years ago I set out to rip approximately 1300 CDs (classical, jazz, pop, world, etcetera, in that order of quantity) using the dBpoweramp ripper. Well through the process I learned of the MusiCHI Suite of software for ripping, tagging, library management & playing computer audio directed primarily at classical & jazz collections. I continued using dBpoweramp to rip the remaining CDs, but where I had been storing the ripped data to various iTunes libraries, I now copied those files to MusiCHI for library management & playback purposes. I never did a more than superficial investigation of MusiCHI's capabilities but it is definitely superior to iTunes for classical music management. You might want to look into it. A place to start might be: https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/MusiCHI.htm. If I had it all to do over I might chosen MusiCHI for the complete process. They have recently introduced a music server: the SRV-01.
 
Last edited:

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing