Ceiling Acoustics Question

[Ron Resnick]

In a listening room if the ceiling above one speaker is lower than the ceiling above the other speaker, should the lower ceiling be treated with diffusive acoustic material or absorptive acoustic material?

Does your answer to this question change if the audiophile is using dipole panel speakers versus dynamic driver box speakers?

 

[ddk]

In a listening room if the ceiling above one speaker is lower than the ceiling above the other speaker, should the lower ceiling be treated with diffusive acoustic material or absorptive acoustic material?

Does your answer to this question change if the audiophile is using dipole panel speakers versus dynamic driver box speakers?

Dear Ron,

It depends on the difference and the ceiling heights, structure, if there's duct there, etc., etc., etc.. The thing that you have to be most weary of is the negative side of these acoustic tiles. Every single one I've tried has a sonic signature and used randomly can do more harm than good. I don't know have far along are you with the construction but I suggest consultation with a good acoustician during this phase instead of trying to fix things later.

david

 

[DonH50]

I would use the same type of material on each.

Planar and line array speakers do not radiate significantly from the top and bottom over most of their frequency range (depending on size relative to wavelength; for most that means from midbass on up) so I would be less concerned about ceiling (or floor) treatment for them. (Nor is their significant radiation directly to the sides, for that matter.)

 

[DaveyF]

Ron, I think the answer lies with moving the speakers to an area that the ceiling is at an equal height above both speakers

Seriously though, the problem presents an up-hill challenge with whatever one would elect to address the problem...either with diffusion or absorption. ( Which one would depend on the type of material that the ceiling is constructed from and numerous other variables that are difficult to consider based on your very minimal description, IMHO). IOW, the answer is not going to be a simple a...or b.

 

[bonzo75]

With planars it shouldn't matter and the ceiling asymmetry can sometimes be a good thing

 

[microstrip]

Albert Porter's room ceiling is significantly asymmetrically tilted and I do not remember reading about any issues with it. He has owned Soundlabs (planer) , Dali Megaline (line array) and now the Focal Grand Utopia EM. See https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/625

He is a member of WBF.

 

[Rodney Gold]

What you really need to do with ceilings is treat the whole as a "cloud" , the ceiling shoud both absorb and to a lesser extent diffuse the sound.
The absoption gives the illusion of a very high ceiling (stuff reflected from a high ceiling will be a lot lower in intensity .. the absoption mimics that) , a great way to "increase" ceiling height if you have a low ceiling
The diffusion stops flutter echo. This will ameliorate the fact that one portion of the ceiling is lower than another.
The conventional thinking is that if you treat the whole ceiling as a cloud , you then make the floor live.
Im in the process of doing just that..my ceiling is only 2.4m high .. I am using foam "cityscapes" and combining it with faux rock diffusion

 

[Anubis]

Im using absorbers in the first reflection points all along the ceeling. I have chatedral ceeling in my room. I would have used the same material for the Lett and right speaker.

 

[witchdoctor]

Still points Aperture panels combine the benefits of both diffusion and absorption so you wouldn't have to choose.

 

[JackD201]

Hi Ron

Given your very high ceilings I wouldn't worry much.

 

[GaryProtein]

I wouldn't do anything unless I had measurements of the room demonstrating that the two sides were different and I would measure AFTER making any adjustments to demonstrate what changes actually occurred.

NUMBERS.

WE NEED NUMBERS, not beliefs when treating a room.

 

[marty]

Dear Ron,

It depends on the difference and the ceiling heights, structure, if there's duct there, etc., etc., etc.. The thing that you have to be most weary of is the negative side of these acoustic tiles. Every single one I've tried has a sonic signature and used randomly can do more harm than good. I don't know have far along are you with the construction but I suggest consultation with a good acoustician during this phase instead of trying to fix things later.

david

I'm in total agreement with David. This work is not for the serious listener who wants to deal with what is usually the most important factor of the system; namely the room. I would highly encourage using the services of a professional acoustician. It a small investment in the overall budget of the dream system you wish to assemble. Predicting the outcome without proper room analysis and rectification of any issues by a pro just seems too risky for me.
Marty

 

[Mike Lavigne]

my ceiling is quite tall. and treating the surface directly above my head was the single most helpful acoustical move I made.

I would never again look at something and assume anything. I made that mistake for 11 years. forget your feeble brain, acoustics are not that intuitive.

treat the surface and listen. until you do you won't know. the goal is to get the ceiling to be neutral. you cannot assume it's already that way.

 

[microstrip]

I wouldn't do anything unless I had measurements of the room demonstrating that the two sides were different and I would measure AFTER making any adjustments to demonstrate what changes actually occurred.

NUMBERS.

WE NEED NUMBERS, not beliefs when treating a room.

Can I ask what specific "numbers" we need in this case? And any way we will need beliefs when analyzing any numbers in small/medium sized rooms.

 

[steve williams]

I'm in total agreement with David. This work is not for the serious listener who wants to deal with what is usually the most important factor of the system; namely the room. I would highly encourage using the services of a professional acoustician. It a small investment in the overall budget of the dream system you wish to assemble. Predicting the outcome without proper room analysis and rectification of any issues by a pro just seems too risky for me.
Marty

Ron is in fact working with an acoustician

 

[Rodney Gold]

The problem with working with an acoustician is that they tend to impose their taste as to what the listener "should" hear and it may not actually conform to your taste..as we all know there is no universal truth in audio... When I did my room , I had 5 acousticians come over .. not one of them agreed with each other as to what the room issues would be or how to treat them (in the bare room)

You might like more decay and a livelier room , which might not be what you actually get with theoretical solutions

I really think the best way is to set up the system , furnish the room , choose your listening position and cure room "problems" as they manifest themselves by adding or deleting "treatment" as needed.

 

[DonH50]

A good acoustician should work with you as a partner to help achieve the sound you want... They may all offer different opinions, and have different ideas of what they believe to be optimal sound, but at the end of the day (week, month ) they should work to achieve what you want to hear.

 

[steve williams]

I used the same acoustician. She places a lot in the RT 60 test

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you, gentlemen!

Jack -- if the speakers are 7' tall, my ceiling would be 1 1/2' above one speaker and 7' above the other speaker.

 

[ddk]

Thank you, gentlemen!

Jack -- if the speakers are 7' tall, my ceiling would be 1 1/2' above one speaker and 7' above the other speaker.

What's in the ceiling Ron?

david