My God, the only other thing in the world that could generate 201 responses for something as yet untried, is Brexit LOL.
Chronosonic XVX.
- Thread starter Joe P
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Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Elliot is correct, we cannot say absolutely, without listening, that the XVX will be a great speaker. What Daryl Wilson told me before auditioning the Masters, was that the huge gulf between the Master Chronosonic and Subwoofer and the XLF and Thor Subwoofer was almost embarrassing. This comment was a not very subtle suggestion that a product would need to be created to fill the gap. While I completely agree that the room and components are critical to a realistic comparison, many seasoned audiophiles and reviewers alike have felt the new Wamms presented the most realistic recreation of music they have EVER heard. Ron's comments are directly on target. Or at least that all audiophiles should listen to understand what is possible in the reproduction of sound. To Elliot's point, anyone postulating that the sound of the Master Chronosonics may not be an improvement over the XLFs or comparable to a modded original pair of Wamms, has simply not heard them. To be fair the Wilson room is superb and I mostly heard tapes recorded by Peter M. himself, but I was able to switch between 3 very different amplifiers as testimony that the speakers remain consistent in their performance despite different electronics(amplifiers). Wilson makes the point that one does not have to use super exotics to achieve greatness. I agree and have personally experienced that many top brand speakers become equitable under the perfect synergy of room and components. OTOH, I have never experienced closing my eyes and truly believing the musicians were there(not on all music).
I have listened to the WAMMs and the XLFs in the same large room with several amplfiers - yes, the difference is very large, the WAMMs with Master subs were far more realistic than anything I have listened before. Irrespectively of the differences, the XLF shows a good part of the WAMM greatness, and I can bet with ultra high probability of winning that the XVX will be a much better speaker than the XLF. Unfortunately the 65% rise in price puts it out of my range.
Really
My point was that the description of the speaker seemed to transcend what we read about its big brother when they released it.
Why 'really' with rolling eyes - I read no disagreement between us? My comment was about the press release - I thought it too was an excellent account of the XVX's makeup with coverage of many details, how it derived from the WAMM and from Dave Wilson's thinking about speakers, particularly the new midrange. Both articles covered much of the same ground.
Have you read "The Wilson Way" by John Giolas? I think you would like it.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Just a few points based on all the comments in this thread
Nobody expects anyone to make any final assessments of XVX's performance without hearing it. However, to debate whether it will be good at all reminds me of a favorite saying of a late friend of Elliot's and mine, Steven Zipser: "If it walks like a duck and it talks like i duck, it may not be a duck, but there's a pretty good chance it's a duck." Daryl's ducks of late should at least inspire some confidence that XVX wouldn't be released until it was worthy. As always, ymmv.
As for used values, Wilson has for about 4 years now (officially, ad hoc for years before that) had a comprehensive trade in program in North America designed to treat the customer fairly as well as offer Certified AuthenticTM Wilson products to those who are interested. Certified AuthenticTM offers a used Wilson buyer a new buying experience with a used Wilson speaker. Since Wilson is willing to pay the dealer for a trade in based on actual retail market value, our used speakers not only reflect the market but insure that if the dealer does not wish to keep the trade in, Wilson will take it. Based on history ( we have been taking X2 and XLF in trade on WAMMs for a couple of years now), I would expect XLF trade ins to be in the 50%-65% of original retail range. Remember too that unlike a single retailer taking a trade in, Wilson Audio has a world wide network of established distributors and dealers who will happily buy a Certified AuthenticTM pair of Wilson speakers to sell to a client in their market.
Will XVX sell? Of that there is no doubt. For many who have heard the WAMM, there is nothing similar to it regardless of price. If we assume (for discussion only - remember we need to hear it first) that XVX is indeed a mini-WAMM, it becomes a very desirable, albeit expensive option. Certainly pre orders bear out this thinking.
Lastly, I'd like to thank Mike Lavigne for his ongoing descriptions of our industry. The measured view is well appreciated. Thank you Mike.
Nobody expects anyone to make any final assessments of XVX's performance without hearing it. However, to debate whether it will be good at all reminds me of a favorite saying of a late friend of Elliot's and mine, Steven Zipser: "If it walks like a duck and it talks like i duck, it may not be a duck, but there's a pretty good chance it's a duck." Daryl's ducks of late should at least inspire some confidence that XVX wouldn't be released until it was worthy. As always, ymmv.
As for used values, Wilson has for about 4 years now (officially, ad hoc for years before that) had a comprehensive trade in program in North America designed to treat the customer fairly as well as offer Certified AuthenticTM Wilson products to those who are interested. Certified AuthenticTM offers a used Wilson buyer a new buying experience with a used Wilson speaker. Since Wilson is willing to pay the dealer for a trade in based on actual retail market value, our used speakers not only reflect the market but insure that if the dealer does not wish to keep the trade in, Wilson will take it. Based on history ( we have been taking X2 and XLF in trade on WAMMs for a couple of years now), I would expect XLF trade ins to be in the 50%-65% of original retail range. Remember too that unlike a single retailer taking a trade in, Wilson Audio has a world wide network of established distributors and dealers who will happily buy a Certified AuthenticTM pair of Wilson speakers to sell to a client in their market.
Will XVX sell? Of that there is no doubt. For many who have heard the WAMM, there is nothing similar to it regardless of price. If we assume (for discussion only - remember we need to hear it first) that XVX is indeed a mini-WAMM, it becomes a very desirable, albeit expensive option. Certainly pre orders bear out this thinking.
Lastly, I'd like to thank Mike Lavigne for his ongoing descriptions of our industry. The measured view is well appreciated. Thank you Mike.
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XLF will sell between $65-80k for factory reconditioned in excellent to near mintXLF's at USD 42000 or less? I want at less a dozen!IMHO such view is surrealistic.
condition me thinks. I don’t see $50k or less being very realistic. I may even be a buyer at $65k
Before Lyric, before Audio Guild, before Sunshine Stereo, Steven worked for Peter McGrath at Sound Components. I met Steven when I joined SCI in early 1978.
I couldn’t agree more regarding the value of selecting a used Wilson product. Depreciation in the first few years may take up to 40-50% off the initial value. However, the rate of depreciation then starts to slow so as a secondhand buyer you may be able to pick up a speaker 1 or 2 models up the performance ladder but at a price comparable to the lower models selling new at RRP. Something to consider. It has worked well for me to acquire Wilson Speakers. What was very encouraging to go down this path is when a manufacturer offers good support through spares for the older gear and a backup repair/refurbishment service. Wilson Audio is certainly one company that I am aware of that provides this. And there would be others as well.
In my example, I acquired a 2005 Alexandria Series 1 in 2012, which I owned until last year. I was able to use the S1 as part payment on a three year old XLF with no loss in value on the S1. Plus while the changeover cost for the XLF was a big stretch for me but was doable as the XLF had already depreciated and rumours of a replacement also encourage the owner to upgrade. The only thing I agreed to do was replace the diffusion pads as the originals were falling apart. No problem, as Wilson were able to supply a full set for the S1. The S1 has now moved on to its third owner.
So, maybe in 4-5 years a traded XVX may come available and I can upgrade again. Food for thought.
No speaker for $48K beats this...
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9cfb1-wilson-audio-alexandria-x-2-s2-full-range
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9cfb1-wilson-audio-alexandria-x-2-s2-full-range
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