Sorry but following this logic RMAF would be an all look but noone listens show...
Chronosonic XVX.
- Thread starter Joe P
- Start date
Sorry but following this logic RMAF would be an all look but noone listens show...
I'm inclined to agree with Mike, particularly wrt a speaker such as the XVX.
RMAF rooms typically have lesser magic than Wilson dealer show rooms. For the purpose of selling a speaker, the dealer wants optimal presentation using their electronics. Show demos generate interest and press buzz - they can be motivators, and that does not diminish their value. But I wouldn't review a speaker using a show demo.
For the ultra high end many buyers will buy without a proper demo. They can afford it. For things like AF0 people will place an order before a demo, even before production starts. On the forum itself you saw the AS being ordered without being heard. Same would happen for speakers this price. Those who can afford it easily, order expensive things from hifi shows irrespective of the sound
Sure, same thing with fancy cars, some watches, other bespoke things, etc. But that doesn't change the sonic difference between shows and showrooms.
I agree about the sonic difference. Just that for a speaker's sales at this price that will not matter.
Perhaps. I still like to think some buyers will a) want to hear it under optimal conditions before purchase, and b) might need to stretch a bit to buy a pair.
And while a dealer may happily take a sale over the phone from someone he never met, the approach is (at least to try) creating a relationship with the buyer.
"Oh you want a pair for the house in Cape Cod as well as the villa in Palm Springs? Of course we can do that."
I would say it's well understood that most audio show rooms result in less than optimal sound compared to individuals' audio rooms. And of course the dealer wants optimal presentation but unless you a) procure a larger room b) employ subs and / or c) employ DEQ which the vast majority don't, it is what it is. Yet ~98% of speakers are listenable at RMAF including the Wilson XLF room at RMAF that I heard some years back. And yes, there will be those ordering speakers sound unheard but I would argue that the majority will still want to hear their prospective purchase especially given the ever- increasing number of competitor products over time.
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i love audio shows, and have been at all RMAF shows but one until this year. when i go there i want to see the best. so i respect your perspective.
but while buyers for mega gear do go to audio shows, mostly the sales process for Wilson's particular ideal XWX level product customer will be an in store customer who will get lot's of hand holding and whole system and installation focus. it takes a dealer to do that.
you have to look at this as if you were Wilson Audio with their sales hat on. what will best result in actual sales? it's making that visit to the dealer significant. an Audio Show can only be a means to promote that to happen. it's not the end game. transactions for this level product rarely happen there. and if that real buyer can only hear the XWX at the dealer then that's where he will go.
and unlike some brands, Wilson dealers are present near most population centers in the U.S. so it's going to be convenient to visit the dealer.
I respect and understand your opinion, but we'll have to agree to disagree. You might want to look at it from this alternate angle: Transactions for not only this level product but for most products don't occur at RMAF. Audiophiles are a picky group and most do their homework before shelling out their hard earned $ and most again don't spend spuriously at a show. Also, getting a first - time taste of what this transducer can do even in show conditions (which Wilson usually does a good job mitigating by procuring a bigger treated room with subs like the XLF room) will only increase traffic to dealers who will cater to their needs as you said (again example: see XLF room circa ~2015). The net is - Audio shows and dealers aren't mutually exclusive even at the high end of audio. My Marketing education and experience tell me that a) the speaker might not be ready for prime time b) budget priorities c) Both.
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steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
In the introductory video Daryl did state that what was on display is still a prototype and not the finished product OR was he merely alluding to the lights?
My guess is that there are still some minor things that need to be ironed out. Hence the static display
Like sbo6 I tend to agree. I do understand the Wilson philosophy of presenting a new product. I saw the same thing when the XLF was released by Dave. It too was a static display BUT the intro was at CES in the Wilson private suite in the Mirage. IOW at a trade show for his dealers in his private suite.
RMAF is not a trade show but a public show for all. The fact that it is static as well as Daryl’s comments suggest to me that the speaker is not yet a finished product.
I’ve owned Wilson speakers since 1993 and have been at the launch of virtually every new product. Plus this speaker is high on my radar so yes i was disappointed that it couldn’t be heard. It was the only reason I was going to attend. When I heard static display I decided against attending.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Here is the static launch of the XLF at CES
https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/photos-of-new-xlf-and-silk-dome-tweeter.5537/#post-83605
https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/photos-of-new-xlf-and-silk-dome-tweeter.5537/#post-83605
A serious question for all the Wilson owners and even more so at their 6 figure loudspeakers.
Does it “bother “ you that the company still uses paper cone drivers ? Objectively they aren’t pistons drivers and light years behind their competitors. Who are even less expensive retail price.
You look at domestic and Magico and YG and they are ahead in objective technology.
Sorry no matter what marketing word Wilson uses to describe resin. It’s still behind aluminum and now carbon fiber.
But the hobby is subjective so I respect your opinions. But frankly , and I mean this respectfully that I’ve never heard or read any magico or yg owner selling their speakers for modern Wilsons.
Does it “bother “ you that the company still uses paper cone drivers ? Objectively they aren’t pistons drivers and light years behind their competitors. Who are even less expensive retail price.
You look at domestic and Magico and YG and they are ahead in objective technology.
Sorry no matter what marketing word Wilson uses to describe resin. It’s still behind aluminum and now carbon fiber.
But the hobby is subjective so I respect your opinions. But frankly , and I mean this respectfully that I’ve never heard or read any magico or yg owner selling their speakers for modern Wilsons.
To be blunt you are simplifying the complexities of drivers to cone material only and specific to "pistons drivers" which I believe you mean are not accurately or evenly pistonic? Either way there are other factors including material resonance, damping not to mention motor structure material / design, material affect on overall sound. etc. (plus paper mated / doped with ??). Then of course there is the cabinet design, crossover etc...
I’m agreement with you that audio and in this case speakers are the sum of parts.
However, in this I was more so interested if any Wilson owners have “ lost faith “ or questioned their value to them at least.
Especially in a hyper competitive speaker market now.
Lots of brands now exist that didn’t when Wilson was considered the gold standard high end dynamic speaker.
Sarcasm. I mean are you biased as a reviewer To the brand ? Are they are giving you, and other industry “ reviewers” such a massive industry accommodation that you can’t dare call them out ?
Or challenge to provide patents or objective white papers as to what their almost 7 figure speaker does in the “ time domain “
Like Ferrari of the auto world. You write negative or even question their product ; they don’t even invite you back.
Didn’t a famous audio “reviewer “ dump his big Wilson’s for Magico ? Only to be chewed out by Wilson?
Just sayin...
Which are also light year behind the competition.
And all this rubbish about time alignment, which they are clearly not, are we (audiophiles) so dumb
are we (audiophiles) so dumb
Careful otherwise people might seriously start replying
I think at the level of Wilsons, Vivids, Magicos, YGs, etc. it becomes more a matter of taste over perfection even though I would agree that materials like beryllium have higher freq. break - up modes = less distortion over the driver's functional freq. range.Which are also light year behind the competition.
And all this rubbish about time alignment, which they are clearly not, are we (audiophiles) so dumb
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