Conrad Johnson: New Preamp Flagship - ART88

[zermatt]

I think I should add this data also:

I tried the Western Electric JW2C51 / 396A with the 6922 Adapter Combo from Tube Depot. The tubes made the preamp go into oscillation. I was getting weird noises out the speakers. Even after removing the tubes the preamp was still in oscillation mode. I would not recommend anyone type these tubes in the art88 preamp.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

If I had that particular preamp, I wouldn't even bother with tube rolling. Especially with the ART88! Rather just enjoy the music.

I'd be happy as with whatever version of tooobs Jeff sends in the unit.
I'd be happily woofty woof'n! Not that I'm woof'n right now...
Woof!
RJ

 

[Ron Resnick]

Does anybody have any insight into why so many -- four or five -- ART88s are for sale on the used market presently?

 

[Coppy777]

After reading the Sircom review again, I picked up four EH 6922s from Viva and found them to further the SQ of the ART88. Maybe it's just my expectations but they have been in the 88 for a couple of hundred hours now and are great. No noise from the tubes so far. Ron, I'll send you a PM on your my perceptions about your question if It's possible here. Nothing dramatic.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Does anybody have any insight into why so many -- four or five -- ART88s are for sale on the used market presently?

Mmm... Yes, can certainly think of the most three probable reasons:

1. The four or five of us in Aus are really enjoying our current CJ preamps, so we're not really bothered by the latest & greatest.
2. The ART88 is sooo goood that it highlights the weaknesses of other gear, hence promptly returned, otherwise the vicious cycle of upgrades begins!
3. After purchasing the ART88, they ran out of funds for groceries! I reckon milk, bread, butter and jam are far more important than an Art88 on the table.

Woof! RJ

 

[tonytsui]

I’d suggest someone pick one of these up asap.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Attn: Copy7...
If you're currently using the EH 6922 variant and those ones are sounding great, then that's great!

Jeff F usually recommends either the Philips or Genalex Gold Lion variants, which I'm currently using in my CJ monoblocks. I've also got the EH-6922 Gold pin variants as well, tried those and although quite good, preferred the GGL's.

Perhaps when placed in a preamp of Class A circuits, which is the case of the ART88, maybe the EH tooobs are bette... , don't know.
Btw, did you happen to try out either the Philips or GGL's? And if so what were your findings?

Interesting to know the differences between these 6922 versions, although the EH & GGL's are pretty much identical and made at the same factory, same process.
Cheers, RJ

 

[Ron Resnick]

Here is a slightly annoying question for Art88 owners who are familiar with GAT 2, but you will know what I'm talking about.

Compared to the sound of GAT 2 does the sound of Art88 take you slightly towards or slightly further away from a neutral, solid-state type of sound? Putting the exact same underlying question another way, which of these two CJ preamps leans to the Jadis direction, and which of these two CJ preamps leans to the Boulder direction?

(Don't debate the question! You know what I'm asking. )

 

[LL21]

Attn: Copy7...
If you're currently using the EH 6922 variant and those ones are sounding great, then that's great!

Jeff F usually recommends either the Philips or Genalex Gold Lion variants, which I'm currently using in my CJ monoblocks. I've also got the EH-6922 Gold pin variants as well, tried those and although quite good, preferred the GGL's.

Perhaps when placed in a preamp of Class A circuits, which is the case of the ART88, maybe the EH tooobs are bette... , don't know.
Btw, did you happen to try out either the Philips or GGL's? And if so what were your findings?

Interesting to know the differences between these 6922 versions, although the EH & GGL's are pretty much identical and made at the same factory, same process.
Cheers, RJ

In my own individual experience with CJ preamps (14L, ACT 2 Series 1, GAT 1, GAT 2) over the last 21 consecutive years of ownership until the Robert Koda K15EX, I have to say that I found the EH very reliable and long lasting. I found the Philips more nuanced, more liquid. I preferred them...BUT they were noisy, not as robust/long-lasting. I often had noise or they became noisy much faster.

Soundwise, by comparison the EH sound came across in our system as slightly hard. In some of the older generation preamps, it might well have been a balancing act of the system and even the preamp itself.

In the end, I found a particular run of Mullards from Canada which combined both elements (reliability, robust sound/bass and delineation, with a warmer tone that mimicked (but did not match) the nuanced, suppleness of the Philips.

 

[LL21]

Here is a slightly annoying question for Art88 owners who are familiar with GAT 2, but you will know what I'm talking about.

Compared to the sound of GAT 2 does the sound of Art88 take you slightly towards or slightly further away from a neutral, solid-state type of sound? Putting the exact same underlying question another way, which of these two CJ preamps leans to the Jadis direction, and which of these two CJ preamps leans to the Boulder direction?

(Don't debate the question! You know what I'm asking. )

Also intrigued to hear as someone who owned and live with CJ preamps for 21 consecutive years up through CJ GAT 2.

 

[Kingrex]

I would also look at NOS e88cc. Like white bugle boy. Even orange. Or a Siemens or Tele.

I had a CJ amp that really liked those on the front end.

 

[bonzo75]

Here is a slightly annoying question for Art88 owners who are familiar with GAT 2, but you will know what I'm talking about.

Compared to the sound of GAT 2 does the sound of Art88 take you slightly towards or slightly further away from a neutral, solid-state type of sound? Putting the exact same underlying question another way, which of these two CJ preamps leans to the Jadis direction, and which of these two CJ preamps leans to the Boulder direction?

(Don't debate the question! You know what I'm asking. )

The question shouldn’t be debated, it should be dismissed as misleading. What’s the point of asking how two different CJ models compare to a Jadis preamp model for your choice of Jadis amp? At most the only person who can answer it is if he has tried all the three preamps with a Jadis power amp. Do you realise a Boulder or Soulution type preamp might actually sound better with a valve power amp?

Edit: sorry for the question. Of course you don’t realise that.

 

[Another Johnson]

Does anybody have any insight into why so many -- four or five -- ART88s are for sale on the used market presently?

Honestly, it is the “quirky charm.” It’s also related to the fact that many dealers won’t trade for CJ, so instead of being sold off the shelf after a trade, they’re consigned.

Ask yourself “what’s the nearest real bricks and mortar store where used CJ can be sold against new CJ. The closest thing is probably Steve Javaherian’s High Performance Stereo in South Florida, and he is more of a warehouse operation than a serious walk in store.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Honestly, it is the “quirky charm.” It’s also related to the fact that many dealers won’t trade for CJ, so instead of being sold off the shelf after a trade, they’re consigned.

Ask yourself “what’s the nearest real bricks and mortar store where used CJ can be sold against new CJ. The closest thing is probably Steve Javaherian’s High Performance Stereo in South Florida, and he is more of a warehouse operation than a serious walk in store.

Thank you.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

In my own individual experience with CJ preamps (14L, ACT 2 Series 1, GAT 1, GAT 2) over the last 21 consecutive years of ownership until the Robert Koda K15EX, I have to say that I found the EH very reliable and long lasting. I found the Philips more nuanced, more liquid. I preferred them...BUT they were noisy, not as robust/long-lasting. I often had noise or they became noisy much faster.

Soundwise, by comparison the EH sound came across in our system as slightly hard. In some of the older generation preamps, it might well have been a balancing act of the system and even the preamp itself.

In the end, I found a particular run of Mullards from Canada which combined both elements (reliability, robust sound/bass and delineation, with a warmer tone that mimicked (but did not match) the nuanced, suppleness of the Philips.

Thanks for your response LL, certainly makes sense and yes I've come across similar findings with these 6922 tube variants.
Cheers matey, and do enjoy those Robert K amps. Finest tunes!
Woof! RJ

 

[LL21]

Thanks for your response LL, certainly makes sense and yes I've come across similar findings with these 6922 tube variants.
Cheers matey, and do enjoy those Robert K amps. Finest tunes!
Woof! RJ

Great to see you still weighing in on the CJ pages, Big Dog RJ. Have always been a huge admirer and fan and expect always will be. At some point, I will find an opportunity to hear the latest CJ flagships, and definitely will take it. I could easily imagine a CJ-Wilson system being a set it and forget it system one could live happily with for many many years. Or a CJ-[name your speaker] system.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Here is a slightly annoying question for Art88 owners who are familiar with GAT 2, but you will know what I'm talking about.

Compared to the sound of GAT 2 does the sound of Art88 take you slightly towards or slightly further away from a neutral, solid-state type of sound? Putting the exact same underlying question another way, which of these two CJ preamps leans to the Jadis direction, and which of these two CJ preamps leans to the Boulder direction?

(Don't debate the question! You know what I'm asking. )

That's quite a difficult question Ron, one that has many twists and turns and if taken too sharply can roll over the truck!

However, I will answer the CJ GATS2 and ART88 preamp comparo, since I've had the GATS2 for over a few months (was looking after one when the owner went overseas) and also had the opportunity to audition the ART88 last July. In fact, I've addressed this very comparison before... can't remember where but I think my most recent post on this comparison was in CJO. Anyway here goes:

GATS2- solid preamp, gets everything right. Fantastic elements on top to bottom freq spec, superb soundstage depth and well controlled LF detail, also fully controls the driving power amps with ease. With a great sense of authority, no flinching one bit. Very neutral sounding too, almost as if there's no preamp!

ART88- all of that above greatness of the GATS2 but with a higher level of drive and control. This is mainly due to one huge difference in its output stage design and that is, in the ART88, it uses a full tooob layout from top to bottom / Input - Output stage. Hence, there's no "SS buffered" output stage, which is found in the GATS2 and all other CJ preamps, including the original ART preamp, which I actually did own in a galaxy far far away. BTW, the original ART preamp was a two chassis unit, big enough to bench press!

This is the very first time that CJ has omitted the buffered output stage and designed an All-Tube preamp. It uses 6 tubes in pairs, and the last two solely for impedence matching for each channel on the output stage. As a result, it has this uncanny ability to completely get out of the way and allow the music to flow with a sense of freedom and sheer brilliance, without any artificial enhancements. It's also even more neutral than the GATS2 or at least this is what I experienced on the two systems that I auditioned.

Having been through the CJ top line series, from the ACT2, CT5, ET5, ET7S2 and GATS2, there's a good difference in overall performance and sonic quality but only by a small margin. Definitely not my benchmark of 40% in improvement. So owning either of these is still just as good and that's one reason why I'm so damn happy with my CT5. Call it vintage whatever...it fully engages my listening experience to high quality recordings.

However, the ART88 is all that! And it definitely crosses the line of my personal benchmark of 40%, and it does that supremely well. In which case, maybe I should get one! Being thinking about it... but at 40grand $AUD I don't think so. There aren't any used or pre-owned ART88's here as yet. Even if there were, it would still be close to 30grand AUD. That's just our market trend here.
The other issue is, if I do go for an ART88, I may have to upgrade other gear... and the vicious cycle begins!!! So no thanks, I'll draw the line at this point. It's good enough. The usual dog house issues still linger in this neighbourhood...

As for comparing which preamp is a Jadis and which is a Boulder...uh?
Sorry matey, that type of question is beyond my pay grade.

Until such time, do enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ

 

[LL21]

This is an amazing commentary, Big Dog RJ. I do remember now that you had provided some insights here. Having owned the ACT, GAT 1 and GAT 2...and understanding your calibration that they are all incremental improvements up through GAT 2...it is fascinating to hear you DO find the ART88 to achieve that '40% better" threshold.

I was always intuitively interested in hearing more about the ART88 knowing Jeff Fischel had taken over and was quietly and humbly very ambitious about his drive to the top of industry performance.

 

[Kingrex]

This is an amazing commentary, Big Dog RJ. I do remember now that you had provided some insights here. Having owned the ACT, GAT 1 and GAT 2...and understanding your calibration that they are all incremental improvements up through GAT 2...it is fascinating to hear you DO find the ART88 to achieve that '40% better" threshold.

I was always intuitively interested in hearing more about the ART88 knowing Jeff Fischel had taken over and was quietly and humbly very ambitious about his drive to the top of industry performance.

I see Big Dogs like, but I thougb he said the 40% was ET5 to Art88????

Not GAT2 to ART88???

 

[Kingrex]

If I were to ever change preamps, I would get a CJ. I won't. Just saying.
I had a CJ amp and was a little disappointed how quickly it went through epensive preamp tubes. I have a set in my First Sound that went for 4 or 5 years and I can not hear a difference between fresh and old. I bet they will go 12,000 to 15,000 hours. And they cost $40.

I have an itch to try a CJ Tea2 phono pre. I have the Channel D LINO 3.3 now. But I do like tube sweet. Having said that. I have all tubes pre and amp.