Coronavirus ...

[the sound of Tao]

The musical scene is now closed. I will no longer be able to listen live or on other people's systems

There should be a sad button as well as a like button. You’ll have to get your fix somehow, the world is having enough bleakness and the music helps.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Thinking outside of the box is fine if the outcome is affordable. Not so good if it leads though to many more of your population ultimately then dying because current understanding of this pandemic is still in the dark and if then your vulnerable end up actually inside of a box.

This great experiment may prove to be such a horrendously costly folly. Some dude sitting on a bleak set of steps abstracting and extrapolating this into some water in the bucket example is classic example of the accompanying academic hubris. These are the same guys who will then be demanding a bed in intensive care if these brilliant ideas fall into the nightmare of a far more complex and very un-simple and indiscriminate reality.

Surely there is some essential wisdom to defaulting to an immediately more safe and better trialled position and following the models of countries that have worked best so far and then exploring and responding to any second wave when that time presents itself after a greater understanding unfolds from current medical experience across the globe.

I rather like our world with the British still well and alive within it. They make such excellent comedy even when their weather is relatively rubbish.

Graham, you need to know only one thing. Our NHS has been underfunded/unreformed (take yr pick whether you're left or right) for a long time, certainly since the crash and the great austerity yrs.

So, our health system is perhaps the least well suited one in the West to deal w this crisis. We have one shot to get it right. Just one.

 

[zerostargeneral]

Mr Resnick,

You are completely correct in your assertions.As yet there have been no fiscal interventions of note,the market has pretty much priced in these conditions.

The monetary cannons have been fired with little effect on the economic pressures that have become more tangible by the day.

The wide spreads,high Vix and flight to cash will continue until fiscal injection or credit break point.

Kindest regards,G.

 

[bonzo75]

Graham, you need to know only one thing. Our NHS has been underfunded/unreformed (take yr pick whether you're left or right) for a long time, certainly since the crash and the great austerity yrs.

So, our health system is perhaps the least well suited one in the West to deal w this crisis. We have one shot to get it right. Just one.

Not sure of that. An American friend of mine, and she is Harvard grad daughter of rich parents, traveled over to London this weekend and will set up camp here as she has more faith in NHS. She has UK citizenship too. Don't want to debate her political views here but that's what she did

 

[the sound of Tao]

Graham, you need to know only one thing. Our NHS has been underfunded/unreformed (take yr pick whether you're left or right) for a long time, certainly since the crash and the great austerity yrs.

So, our health system is perhaps the least well suited one in the West to deal w this crisis. We have one shot to get it right. Just one.

Perhaps even more reason to buy yourself some time to seek to quickly buffer up and strengthen your IC health infrastructure. Throwing an ill formed health system up against this monumental wave and yelling Sparta Sparta a lot as it hits your people perhaps isn’t the best way to spend your one and only shot at it. But in truth I hope you are right. I’ll be honest I don’t have sufficient understanding to know enough on this but it does seem to go against all current thinking and any evidence on what actually works.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Boris has v few options. So, King of the world? Or king for a day?

 

[howiebrou]

Perhaps even more reason to buy yourself some time to seek to quickly buffer up and strengthen your IC health infrastructure. Throwing an ill formed health system up against this monumental wave and yelling Sparta Sparta a lot as it hits your people perhaps isn’t the best way to spend your one and only shot at it. But in truth I hope you are right. I’ll be honest I don’t have sufficient understanding to know enough on this but it does seem to go against all current thinking and any evidence on what actually works.

The most conservative and tried and tested methodology would be to do what those countries whose cases began several months ago have tried. Some have had reasonable success, some less so. For it to work the health system must be robust or the ability of a country must be great enough to survive and tolerate a large number of deaths. China did it. Suffered greatly but there the country has more of an ability to mobilise the people than some other places. I'm not sure if the UK could do it and that might be why they are trying something novel, albeit at great risk. I just spoke to a medical friend in the UK who basically said that testing has ceased. They don't care if you're infected. In fact much the opposite as long as you don't get sick. A frightening prospect. We'll see how they do in a couple of weeks although it will be hard to judge if they don't test.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, we're certainly not testing health workers or care home staff. These people are at the sharp end, the Front so to speak. I'm really not understanding that. Unless of course it's simply a case of "all hands to the pump...and we do mean ALL hands".

Keep washing!

 

[Lagonda]

The most conservative and tried and tested methodology would be to do what those countries whose cases began several months ago have tried. Some have had reasonable success, some less so. For it to work the health system must be robust or the ability of a country must be great enough to survive and tolerate a large number of deaths. China did it. Suffered greatly but there the country has more of an ability to mobilise the people than some other places. I'm not sure if the UK could do it and that might be why they are trying something novel, albeit at great risk. I just spoke to a medical friend in the UK who basically said that testing has ceased. They don't care if you're infected. In fact much the opposite as long as you don't get sick. A frightening prospect. We'll see how they do in a couple of weeks although it will be hard to judge if they don't test.

It is easy to count the bodies as they get buried

 

[the sound of Tao]

It is easy to count the bodies as they get buried

The ultimate test.

 

[spiritofmusic]

We can't afford those bean counters either.

So, Boris may deny it now because it sounds like social darwinism, but herd immunity must be the plan. This can be the only reason why we're the outlier on: no social distancing, no schools shut, and no health workers screening.

What a judgement call.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Well, we're certainly not testing health workers or care home staff. These people are at the sharp end, the Front so to speak. I'm really not understanding that. Unless of course it's simply a case of "all hands to the pump...and we do mean ALL hands".

Keep washing!

Social distancing plus distance socialising. Music and forums may be the great retreat. Hope you all stay well, it is tough to go to work then stress that you bring this contact home into our families. There are no simple answers.

 

[howiebrou]

It is easy to count the bodies as they get buried

But you won't account for those with serious chronic long term effects...which might number more than the buried.

 

[howiebrou]

We can't afford those bean counters either.

So, Boris may deny it now because it sounds like social darwinism, but herd immunity must be the plan. This can be the only reason why we're the outlier on: no social distancing, no schools shut, and no health workers screening.

What a judgement call.

It's interesting how "herd immunity" is being employed as it is a term that originated in veterinary medicine and now we are treating people like animals...

 

[marmota]

Coronavirus is going to kill a lot more people in Spain, for sure.
Why?
I work at a Call Center for a bank, we are 400 people in the same 2 floors building...I was on holidays (1st to 16th march), so I returned today for work. My surprise: everything remains the same, in fact, people is asked to work even more hours without ANY safety measure.
Also, at the moment, NO ONE is allowed to work from home, so you have to go there and get the virus, period.

I was very lucky (and wise) because I arrived one hour before the start of my working day, so I commented my boss my situation: I have asthma, so I'm in one of the most vulnerable groups against the virus. I was allowed to extend my holidays two weeks more (16 to 30th march), and also he promised me I would be able to work from home after my holidays, but they have to "figure it out" before (translation: they didn't even talk about it yet, in fact, he was laughing at me at first because I was wearing a mask...)
Clarification: I was able to extend my holidays because technically I WAS ON HOLIDAYS...if not, this would not be possible.
They say: stay at home...but on monday you're invincible? C'mon!

This is common, every stupid call center stays the same as before the virus, in fact, they're hiring more people and asking employees to work overtime...WITHOUT ANY SAFETY MEASURE AGAINST COVID!
The Covid help phone number? Don't worry, they're hiring people! Same work space as me, no experience or medical knowledge, just courage to go there and risk your life for 900€.

Anyway, I hope (me and my coworkers, who weren't as lucky as me and are still suffering everyday at work) to be able to work from home instead of having to go personally to that stupid place, and once everything becomes normal again, return to work normally as always.

Please, everyone take care of yourselves,
best regards

 

[the sound of Tao]

We can't afford those bean counters either.

So, Boris may deny it now because it sounds like social darwinism, but herd immunity must be the plan. This can be the only reason why we're the outlier on: no social distancing, no schools shut, and no health workers screening.

What a judgement call.

It is whether we choose to be like Icarus or more like Daedalus, flying lower and avoiding unnecessary risk is historically more likely the best policy. Just depends on how much you’re willing to risk.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Coronavirus is going to kill a lot more people in Spain, for sure.
Why?
I work at a Call Center for a bank, we are 400 people in the same 2 floors building...I was on holidays (1st to 16th march), so I returned today for work. My surprise: everything remains the same, in fact, people is asked to work even more hours without ANY safety measure.
Also, at the moment, NO ONE is allowed to work from home, so you have to go there and get the virus, period.

I was very lucky (and wise) because I arrived one hour before the start of my working day, so I commented my boss my situation: I have asthma, so I'm in one of the most vulnerable groups against the virus. I was allowed to extend my holidays two weeks more (16 to 30th march), and also he promised me I would be able to work from home after my holidays, but they have to "figure it out" beofre (translation: they didn't even talk about it yet, in fact, he was laughing at me at first because I was wearing a mask...)
Clarification: I was able to extend my holidays because technically I WAS ON HOLIDAYS...if not, this would not be possible.
They say: stay at home...but on monday you're invincible? C'mon!

This is common, every stupid call center stays the same as before the virus, in fact, they're hiring more people and asking employees to work overtime...WITHOUT ANY SAFETY MEASURE AGAINST COVID!
The Covid help phone number? Don't worry, they're hiring people! Same work space as me, no experience or medical knowledge, just courage to go there and risk your life for 900€.

Anyway, I hope (me and my coworkers, who weren't as lucky as me and are still suffering everyday at work) to be able to work from home instead of having to go personally to that stupid place, and once everything becomes normal again, return to work normally as always.

Please, everyone take care of yourselves,
best regards

Everyone is struggling to know how best to respond. Management are paralysed because they don’t know what to do. So much of what we do can be managed from home. These simple choices can have life ending consequences for our families and all those we love.

 

[rbbert]

It's interesting how "herd immunity" is being employed as it is a term that originated in veterinary medicine and now we are treating people like animals...

Where did you get that idea? AFAICT, "herd immunity" was first described in the scientific literature as relating to human illness.

Topley WWC, Wilson GS. The spread of bacterial infection: the problem of herd immunity, J Hyg, 1923, vol. 21 (pg. 243-9)

Not saying you are wrong, but it appears to be an unsubstantiated opinion.

 

[djsina2]

It's interesting how "herd immunity" is being employed as it is a term that originated in veterinary medicine and now we are treating people like animals...

People are no more important than animals, often time less important.

 

[marmota]

Everyone is struggling to know how best to respond. Management are paralysed because they don’t know what to do. So much of what we do can be managed from home. These simple choices can have life ending consequences for our families and all those we love.

I agree with you in the general aspect, but in this specific case is disgusting...there's not even a paper with the "cough on your elbow" message, no masks allowed, no gloves allowed, not even gel or alcohol to disinfect your hands. Distance from your coworker: 50-70cm, as always. No possiblity of working from home, when it's perfectly doable in this case. Is like they want you to get the virus too.

The worst of all is that I can only be thankful for how lucky I've been, and find solace in "things could have gone much worse for me", and be at home without being able to do anything about it. Once the first person there is infected (which I hope doesn't happen, but at this rate it is going happen sooner than later), I'm sure this goes to court, but that's the sad thing...having to wait for someone to suffer instead of being cautious from the beginning.