Crystal Disc US$1600 was played with Genesis Speaker

[edorr]

I beg to differ. Some audiophiles will upgrade from a $5000 CD player to a $45,000 CD player to try to extract more out of their CDs, there are some who will try to improve the CDs. This has been the argument against my CD re-burning process for over 10 years already, and the ones who maintain that the process can not make a difference with their expensive transports are the ones who have not tried it without taking short cuts.

It is impossible to extract "more" out of a CD than the 600mb worth of data that is on it. It's like trying to extract more out of a copy of Microsoft office or an Excel spreadsheet. It can't be done. It is the exact same datafile. I can copy my spreadsheets between drives, flashdrives, CR roms 100s of times. It is still the same data.

 

[NorthStar]

Just got a confirmation from Andy that the Crystal disc and all materials will ship soon!

Now that's best! :b

 

[Bruce B]

It is impossible to extract "more" out of a CD than the 600mb worth of data that is on it. It's like trying to extract more out of a copy of Microsoft office or an Excel spreadsheet. It can't be done. It is the exact same datafile. I can copy my spreadsheets between drives, flashdrives, CR roms 100s of times. It is still the same data.

I'm sure what Gary was trying to say is to extract "more of a better sound". We all know the data on a CD is finite. We purchase better players because of "hopefully" better filters, transports, algorithms and chipsets.

 

[JackD201]

I'm not talking about smudges I'm talking about land length data errors from poor molding. Besides what part of "Big if" was I not clear about? Maybe I should be clearer. You won't get many if any C1 or C2 errors at all on a new disc in this day and age even on "lowly" polycarbonate. Better?

Jeez try to be polite and you get jumped on.

 

[edorr]

I'm not talking about smudges I'm talking about land length data errors from poor molding. Besides what part of "Big if" was I not clear about? Maybe I should be clearer. You won't get many if any C1 or C2 errors at all on a new disc in this day and age even on "lowly" polycarbonate. Better?

Jeez try to be polite and you get jumped on.

If I burn a spreadsheet file to a CR rom it is 100% error free 99.9% of the time. What is so special about music bits that result in land length data errors when copying files.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I'm sure what Gary was trying to say is to extract "more of a better sound". We all know the data on a CD is finite. We purchase better players because of "hopefully" better filters, transports, algorithms and chipsets.

i think that any physical media is affected by many things related to reading the disc and pushing the data to the dac, and then the dac is also in a phyisical environment too. the actual data itself on the media is simply one part of the total performance. so even if that is exactly the same on a regular CD, the Crystal Disc, or the server there are still lots of variables to be considered.

i can hear it when i put decoupling footers underneath my server box upstairs, 40 feet from my dac. everything matters.

i would be curious how using the Crystal Disc in a given digital player/transport might compare to using a regular production CD with that same player sitting on my Herzan TS-150 active isolation shelf. both approaches provide for physical playback performance advantages. i wonder how they might compare.

 

[Steve williams]

Great question Mike. You need to bring your Herzan to Bruce's room at RMAF

 

[Bruce B]

i would be curious how using the Crystal Disc in a given digital player/transport might compare to using a regular production CD with that same player sitting on my Herzan TS-150 active isolation shelf. both approaches provide for physical playback performance advantages. i wonder how they might compare.

I guess we'll find out soon enough. I'll bring them over when it gets here!

 

[Ronm1]

I'll have to opt for "not," Andy. Decent error correction will read the pits as on or off, unless they're damaged. Could the shape of the pits effect timing, increase jitter? Maybe. But that's a completely different discussion.

Tim

The premise of the SHM process, better defined pits, less errors, don't get me started on that one.

 

[Bruce B]

The premise of the SHM process, better defined pits, less errors, don't get me started on that one.

The SHaM process is totally different mastering as well. That's where the difference is you're hearing.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Great question Mike. You need to bring your Herzan to Bruce's room at RMAF

my Herzan is staying right where it is, thank you.

OTOH Reid Whitney from Herzan will be at RMAF with a Herzan or two and i will try to get him to support investigation of this question.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I guess we'll find out soon enough. I'll bring them over when it gets here!

cool.

hopefully we will have regular production CD versions of this Crystal Disc to establish a baseline as well as the source files.

 

[garylkoh]

I guess we'll find out soon enough. I'll bring them over when it gets here!

If Mike doesn't mind. I'd like to be there too. I'll also be interested if you can rip the Crystal Disc, and burn it to one of Winston's UDM blanks (I have a stash if you've run out) and then do that comparison. Do you still have a working Plextor Premium-II? My last one has already expired, and I sent all my Yamaha CRW-F1s to Todd.

We'll need to invite an objectivist along too..... Amir?

 

[Bruce B]

cool.

hopefully we will have regular production CD versions of this Crystal Disc to establish a baseline as well as the source files.

sure will

 

[Bruce B]

If Mike doesn't mind. I'd like to be there too. I'll also be interested if you can rip the Crystal Disc, and burn it to one of Winston's UDM blanks (I have a stash if you've run out) and then do that comparison. Do you still have a working Plextor Premium-II? My last one has already expired, and I sent all my Yamaha CRW-F1s to Todd.

I have a stack of Plextors I've been hoarding!

 

[audioarcher]

If Mike doesn't mind. I'd like to be there too. I'll also be interested if you can rip the Crystal Disc, and burn it to one of Winston's UDM blanks (I have a stash if you've run out) and then do that comparison. Do you still have a working Plextor Premium-II? My last one has already expired, and I sent all my Yamaha CRW-F1s to Todd.

We'll need to invite an objectivist along too..... Amir?

I'd like to join in the fun as well if that is cool.

 

[Bruce B]

I'd like to join in the fun as well if that is cool.

The more the merrier! We need all the ears we can get to put this puppy to bed!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

If Mike doesn't mind. I'd like to be there too. I'll also be interested if you can rip the Crystal Disc, and burn it to one of Winston's UDM blanks (I have a stash if you've run out) and then do that comparison. Do you still have a working Plextor Premium-II? My last one has already expired, and I sent all my Yamaha CRW-F1s to Todd.

We'll need to invite an objectivist along too..... Amir?

you know you are always welcome.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I'd like to join in the fun as well if that is cool.

absolutely.

 

[garylkoh]

The more the merrier! We need all the ears we can get to put this puppy to bed!

I dont' think we'll be able to put this puppy to bed unless we can measure that there is a difference and we are not deceiving ourselves. A double blind test will be called for next if we do report a difference. It's a no-win situation, Bruce.

But I'm sure that all the participants will learn something, and if nothing, then at least the good company and Mike's usual great hospitality.