Here is a more detailed look inside the new Cascade for those interested.
DAC architecture reimagined - the Cascade DAC
- Thread starter Dustin Symanski
- Start date
Here is a more detailed look inside the new Cascade for those interested.
Agreed. We are not so callous to ignore thoughtful feedback from everyone here and during the Munich show. So thanks to everyone sticking to their guns
So, to update everyone here, we have come to a resolution. The specific trade in values has been removed from our website, because it bypassed and ignored the potential service and support of our excellent dealers. Instead, we will first and foremost allow the dealer who is familiar with our product and customers to evaluate on a case by case basis. They can apply the proper context, where as, a unilateral company policy cannot. At that point, they will get in touch with us to decide what to do. We have also worked out a better refurbishment program so they can be more effective in selling the second hand units that are traded in.
The result. Your recent Reference DAC can now be valued by the dealer and MSB at it's true value based on the market, not an eventual trade in. The trade in policy has not changed, but now it is not defining the value of gear that exceeds those defined values. The dealers will be able to more easily sell the gear second hand and keep it in circulation bringing great experiences to someone new.
Like so many issues to resolve, context is key. Thanks for bringing this to our attention and we hope this helps!
I was curious why suddenly there were *lot's* of Select II's on the used market - question answered.
I have been a longterm admirer of MSB and was fortunate enough to acquire a Select II. By far the best digital I have ever heard. Am looking forward to one day upgrading to Cascade or Sentinel - something to look forward to. I do love the aesthetics of the select though - it's very organic - and prefer its looks if I'm honest - it has aged very well IMO - the sign of great industrial design.
Am really enjoying MSB's transparency and participation here - and the first time I have seen a new flagship at a cheaper price point than the one it succeeds. It's also a smart commercial move - eventually manufacturers will price themselves out, if things continued at the rate they were, and that is bad for everyone (trickle-down).
My best wishes for the team at MSB - and can't wait to hear the Cascade in due course.
I have been a longterm admirer of MSB and was fortunate enough to acquire a Select II. By far the best digital I have ever heard. Am looking forward to one day upgrading to Cascade or Sentinel - something to look forward to. I do love the aesthetics of the select though - it's very organic - and prefer its looks if I'm honest - it has aged very well IMO - the sign of great industrial design.
Am really enjoying MSB's transparency and participation here - and the first time I have seen a new flagship at a cheaper price point than the one it succeeds. It's also a smart commercial move - eventually manufacturers will price themselves out, if things continued at the rate they were, and that is bad for everyone (trickle-down).
My best wishes for the team at MSB - and can't wait to hear the Cascade in due course.
Thank you Daniel for willing to look into and solve such "depreciation" issue. There are indeed some of the Digital Directors / DAC selling at only 50% of the MSRP....Hope the invisible hand helps revaluate based on this update.Agreed. We are not so callous to ignore thoughtful feedback from everyone here and during the Munich show. So thanks to everyone sticking to their guns
So, to update everyone here, we have come to a resolution. The specific trade in values has been removed from our website, because it bypassed and ignored the potential service and support of our excellent dealers. Instead, we will first and foremost allow the dealer who is familiar with our product and customers to evaluate on a case by case basis. They can apply the proper context, where as, a unilateral company policy cannot. At that point, they will get in touch with us to decide what to do. We have also worked out a better refurbishment program so they can be more effective in selling the second hand units that are traded in.
The result. Your recent Reference DAC can now be valued by the dealer and MSB at it's true value based on the market, not an eventual trade in. The trade in policy has not changed, but now it is not defining the value of gear that exceeds those defined values. The dealers will be able to more easily sell the gear second hand and keep it in circulation bringing great experiences to someone new.
Like so many issues to resolve, context is key. Thanks for bringing this to our attention and we hope this helps!
Regretfully, the “invisible hand” will likely not be able to change the fact that used digital equipment, particularly models that have been replaced/discontinued, rarely sell for more than 50% of retail and usually considerably less.
We shall see. Our dealers are doing their due diligence, but there is also an essential group of HiFi lovers who can play in this space and support us without worry over resale. That means some awesome second deals will be out there for others to benefit from. Our dealers should be able to assist with anyone who needs to recover more on the upgrade.
True enough, but we can hope it will still help others.
Thank you for the kind words! The Select Design will always hold a special place in my heart. I have high hopes the Cascade will create a similar legacy. It looks really wonderful in person.
Indeed. Very similar. The Cascade required new casework for the modules so we could populate the PCB underneath the individual modules. We were able to get the clock circuitry that much close to the ladders. Also, with the new motherboard we are able to put 4X the data through the DAC modules. If these are installed in a Reference or Select the will work, but the older gen motherboards are not able to handle the new data rates we have achieved in the Cascade.
I love the fact MSB are doubling down on getting the clock as close to the DAC modules a possible - whilst others persist in 'selling' the master clock in a different box. I don't want to start a brand war here - it's such a good thread - just something I noted.
There are so many ways to do it, all part of the fun! Always pushing for sonic performance above all else. Selling an extra master clock product would make more money though Not what we are here for.
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It will probably be the next SOTA DAC for another decade.
The footer's screw size & thread appears to be larger than for the previous footers.
Daniel, may we know what is the thread size of the holes for the footers' screws?
Thanks.
Wow! That is a ground up, total re-thinking for the Cascade design - not a minor re-tweak!
It will probably be the next SOTA DAC for another decade.
The footer's screw size & thread appears to be larger than for the previous footers.
Daniel, may we know what is the thread size of the holes for the footers' screws?
Thanks.
Daniel,
We spoke at length in Munich, and I'm glad to see MSB is communicating very directly and openly about what a major change this DAC is. Giving "more for less" is not something you see everyday in the high-end audio market. "More for more" is easy. But the lengths MSB go to create a remarkable performing product, at a lower cost than the previous flagship, is truly extraordinary, and needs to be communicated better, like you're doing right now! Our conversation made me want to visit the factory, just to see first-hand all the cool stuff they have going there now, and see how these new DACs are build!
As a long-time MSB fan, and yes, dealer (I was a customer first, dealer later), I'm glad to be working with Daniel and Jonathan @ MSB to provide a reasonable, effective way to upgrade existing owners to Cascade, and as a "side effect", potentially offer Certified Reference and Select DACs at a much lower price point to the market.
So, if you own a Ref/Select, and is considering the Cascade, feel free to reach out to me as well if you have any questions.
Thanks,
Alex
We spoke at length in Munich, and I'm glad to see MSB is communicating very directly and openly about what a major change this DAC is. Giving "more for less" is not something you see everyday in the high-end audio market. "More for more" is easy. But the lengths MSB go to create a remarkable performing product, at a lower cost than the previous flagship, is truly extraordinary, and needs to be communicated better, like you're doing right now! Our conversation made me want to visit the factory, just to see first-hand all the cool stuff they have going there now, and see how these new DACs are build!
As a long-time MSB fan, and yes, dealer (I was a customer first, dealer later), I'm glad to be working with Daniel and Jonathan @ MSB to provide a reasonable, effective way to upgrade existing owners to Cascade, and as a "side effect", potentially offer Certified Reference and Select DACs at a much lower price point to the market.
So, if you own a Ref/Select, and is considering the Cascade, feel free to reach out to me as well if you have any questions.
Thanks,
Alex
Very clever
I guess I should disclose the volume knob is still round, sorry to disappoint.Thread for the feet is M10, but I can’t recall the pitch currently. We will have that info posted to the technical specifications page later.
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