were it so, Steve would likely be surprised. we've had our differences. i just read what Steve wrote. was it not true?
please explain if it's relevant.
Ddk
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If the forum software has modern access control, then any of its objects should be governable via permissions.
Via access control, could moderators:
-- prevent two or more participants from addressing one another for a cooling off period, or
-- prevent access to the thread in question for those in heated dialog, or
-- put the afflicted posts in a private msg and send the perpetrator's there to finish their disagreements
-- and other options.
(Hint for KeithR: mediation)
There are lots of ways to address conflict beyond the heavy-handed protocol the owners/moderators adopt. Warn-and-wait for compliance then suspend/ban is crude, people being people. Unless the aim is humiliation or punishment. The conflict in this issue is long forgotten, but the consequences of how it was dealt with will be here for a long time. Time to look for other ways.
Via access control, could moderators:
-- prevent two or more participants from addressing one another for a cooling off period, or
-- prevent access to the thread in question for those in heated dialog, or
-- put the afflicted posts in a private msg and send the perpetrator's there to finish their disagreements
-- and other options.
(Hint for KeithR: mediation)
There are lots of ways to address conflict beyond the heavy-handed protocol the owners/moderators adopt. Warn-and-wait for compliance then suspend/ban is crude, people being people. Unless the aim is humiliation or punishment. The conflict in this issue is long forgotten, but the consequences of how it was dealt with will be here for a long time. Time to look for other ways.
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It's relevant but personal/private. From what I understand, this thread is but at a surface level.
Not bad ideas. Remember, the moderators are not paid and have full time real jobs elsewhere. Your creating hours of work. Do you have a solution for the manpower required to implement process such as you note.
You know much more about the moderators than I.
I see no real issues here with the functionality done in software.
What is it worth to you to prevent, or at least try to prevent, the loss of key contributors?
Too many people here are reactionary. Quick to question, find fault or doubt, but slow or dull on proactivity. What I would like to see are attempts at problem solving and positive contributions.
I'd really like to know how measured you moderators are in making your decisions why a ban is issued on a member
Based on several of your posts I really doubt u get it.......
When issues arise the 3 of us discuss things via text or in a moderator thread. Sometimes the discussions take hours. We only take action when all 3 are in agreement. Otherwise we do nothing.
So, saying that “I don’t get it” really has no meaning since none of us take unilateral action. That is something we agreed upon.
But tell me, what have I posted which indicate to you that “I don’t get it?”
Oh dear me!--this thread is growing legs faster than Analog Vs Digital 
--what should have been just a stand in the naughty corner for 3 days has turned into an outpouring of angst/urge to pontificate /blame/woe/sarcastic quips/good show/ bad move/etc /etc!
One takes their stance --the tribes have spoken( apologies to Survivor!)-Yes even to a serial fence sitter like Moi --its pretty obvious the "camps"
Taking in all the scenario presented, while David will admit a certain abrasiveness in some postings his knowledge here has indeed been of extreme usefulness to many of you--deep down he knows his craft that comes from experience and a time when hands on in the game and street nous got the results that demanded perfection-Kudos to him.
An aside I had chuckle at some of the chat posted -in the distant past when I was Davids age I behaved just like him on the early days of other forums -- got reprimanded /banned/threatened/tarred and feathered!-- and hey!--I'm still kicking on.
Steve and Ron have, I'd honestly say the most respected US Audio forum and the moderators get my vote--to those of you that have not felt the ire of the Mods on other Audio forums --WBF is a catwalk--trust me!
So for what it's worth I'm sorta of the opinion if something piques his interest David may re enter the den--I think it would be beneficial myself.
BruceD
--what should have been just a stand in the naughty corner for 3 days has turned into an outpouring of angst/urge to pontificate /blame/woe/sarcastic quips/good show/ bad move/etc /etc!One takes their stance --the tribes have spoken( apologies to Survivor!)-Yes even to a serial fence sitter like Moi --its pretty obvious the "camps"
Taking in all the scenario presented, while David will admit a certain abrasiveness in some postings his knowledge here has indeed been of extreme usefulness to many of you--deep down he knows his craft that comes from experience and a time when hands on in the game and street nous got the results that demanded perfection-Kudos to him.
An aside I had chuckle at some of the chat posted
-in the distant past when I was Davids age I behaved just like him on the early days of other forums -- got reprimanded /banned/threatened/tarred and feathered!-- and hey!--I'm still kicking on.Steve and Ron have, I'd honestly say the most respected US Audio forum and the moderators get my vote--to those of you that have not felt the ire of the Mods on other Audio forums --WBF is a catwalk--trust me!
So for what it's worth I'm sorta of the opinion if something piques his interest David may re enter the den--I think it would be beneficial myself.
BruceD
There have been some interesting proposed solutions to automating moderation. As far as I know none of them are supported in the software but that is up to Ron and Steve to confirm and/or implement changes.
I have a novel idea. How about if people re-read the term of service and just follow them. Then we won’t need any moderators because I can tell you, moderation is no fun. We do it voluntarily as a favor to Ron and Steve since they do not want to moderate. A good day is when no posts are flagged.
Also, remember, moderators do not read 95% of the posts on WBF since we don’t go looking for issues. 99% of what we act on are reported by other users. I have been a moderator for 4 months and have never reported a post. So, other people clearly want stuff moderated or they wouldn’t report it.
In 4 months there have been 4 warnings to 3 people. 2 were to the same person and 1 each to 2 others. It isn’t as though this is common. In fact, it is rare.
I have a novel idea. How about if people re-read the term of service and just follow them. Then we won’t need any moderators because I can tell you, moderation is no fun. We do it voluntarily as a favor to Ron and Steve since they do not want to moderate. A good day is when no posts are flagged.
Also, remember, moderators do not read 95% of the posts on WBF since we don’t go looking for issues. 99% of what we act on are reported by other users. I have been a moderator for 4 months and have never reported a post. So, other people clearly want stuff moderated or they wouldn’t report it.
In 4 months there have been 4 warnings to 3 people. 2 were to the same person and 1 each to 2 others. It isn’t as though this is common. In fact, it is rare.
When one enters a friend’s social club one accepts the rules of the club — especially if the rules are few and simple, and especially if it’s a dear friend. If one enters the club and chooses to get into a fight and gets thrown out by not one bouncer but a unanimous committee of bouncers, how is that the friend’s (the host’s) fault?
I genuinely don’t understand why any of the foregoing analogy is controversial.
I genuinely don’t understand why any of the foregoing analogy is controversial.
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It might be a little strained if certain fights were allowed. If you bought a gun to a knife fight. You broke the rules. The error of opinion must be tolerated. Civility must be maintained.
100% agree
100% agree, I think we should try to back David , David is expert and in all the world very few Audiophiles have this level of experience/knowledge , we should respect him
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So much of our digital life involves ' click here to agree before proceeding ' and it's so much information we tend to push forward without reading. So I get it, perhaps a feeling of 'hey wait a minute...you own my content?!'. If we read carefully the terms of all the apps on our phone bet same feelings would arise
I will miss your special way of getting to the heart of a matter very much.
Mike
excuse me for my comment, I am peaceful and I do not like hurt any audiophile but :
If you want to learn more you should Respect smart/expert/professional audiophiles like Romy the Cat or David.
high end world is full of non-sense information spread by magazines and also many audiophiles and only very very few Audiophiles like David or Romy the cat help us to have better sound/knowledge.
The expert members give the forum its value.
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Respect is something someone has to earn. Respectful behavior towards other members with different opinions is in that regard one of the key elements.
Audiocrack
Peace, respect and love all are important to have better world but finally we are here to learn from each other. I think David changed WBF forum to a better place for me and leaving here is not good at all
Amir, I'm afraid I disagree with your post. You mention Respect for Romy and David (my bold), implying we as WBF should put up with however David wants to express himself. That's an interesting concept which I fundamentally disagree with. I think David's opinions are valuable and interesting to many (Including me) but IMO, his style of posting regularly borders on the abusive if you have the temerity to have a different opinion. If not abusive it quickly becomes disrespectful. Should that be acceptable? From anyone?
This thread is fascinating.... Its taken six pages of hand wringing over a simple question: whether WBF has the right to moderate OR whether it should stop moderating certain people in order to keep them here. IMO the latter way descends into chaos, because one standard for some and one (higher?) standard for everyone else would never work.
So IMO, OF COURSE we need the civility standards which come from moderation. Of course there will be times when people don't like the moderation but that's normal too. My only concern with that moderation is that we should expect the same standards from everyone, individual or manufacturer, financial contributor or otherwise, and apply those standards consistently.
I was told years ago in a business context that if you don't set standards you get them anyway, they will just be ones you didn't want. There are some forums in the UK which are pretty much without moderation and trust me, its not a direction you want to go in. It's a real shame he has gone but nothing is worth the degradation of standards that could have come from the steps "necessary" to keep him.
No one made suggestions about automating moderation. Kingrex said that alternatives to the current approach would be time consuming. Not if that is done with software options to enable alternatives to the current approach while still requiring human judgement. Have you no interest in ways to moderate conflict beyond the big stick approach of warn and ban?
Chop
I am not against peaceful world but what i expect from WBF admins (Ron and Steve) is managing the problem without making bigger problem.
look at over 6272 posts by David , he is not new to this forum and he shared many interesting information in this forum. I ask Ron and Steve why he should leave here?
I am not against peaceful world but what i expect from WBF admins (Ron and Steve) is managing the problem without making bigger problem.
look at over 6272 posts by David , he is not new to this forum and he shared many interesting information in this forum. I ask Ron and Steve why he should leave here?
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