Dedicated lines and properly integrated grounding. A discussion...

TBone

New Member
Nov 15, 2012
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agreed but I have no discernible noise

The one thing I've always found interesting concerning "noise-floor" issues is that the vast majority of audiophiles don't really comprehend or hear the issue as a problem (I'm not just talking about power induced noise either). Upping the gain and listening for "silence", then declaring no noise, no issue, is convenient, but not really indicative. Noise often hides within the fabric of the music (esp digital induced noise), often heard as a form of grain. Only when that's eliminated ...

tb1
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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The one thing I've always found interesting concerning "noise-floor" issues is that the vast majority of audiophiles don't really comprehend or hear the issue as a problem (I'm not just talking about power induced noise either). Upping the gain and listening for "silence", then declaring no noise, no issue, is convenient, but not really indicative. Noise often hides within the fabric of the music (esp digital induced noise), often heard as a form of grain. Only when that's eliminated ...

tb1

That's a pretty sweeping statement to make. I have become very sensitive to noise floor related issues in the last year or two which prompted major changes in my system. With an all tube system and low output moving coil cartridges, I was willing to tolerate a much higher noise floor than I would ever put up with today. It simply doesn't have to be that way. The ambient noise level of my listening room is very low which is due in part to being 9' underground and built with poured concrete walls which are insulated on the inside and outside of the foundation. Not having any windows helps with noise issues as well.

I love how low the noise floor of my room is and how low the noise floor of my system is.
 

cjf

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2012
454
105
948
What about the big transformers in your power amps?

The Torus come in wall mount versions as well as versions that become your sub panel so you can put the huge iso tx into an equipment room. A lot of high end HTs have all the gear in an equipment room or closet, often outside the room. It's only us Audiophiles who like our gear on display and spread all over the floor :)

I hear ya, but I think in many cases folks try to place their power amp across the room far away from the sensitive front end components.

It would certainly be an interesting test to see if things sound any better or worse with the Torus unit several feet away from said front end gear. I guess all one would need at the most rudimentary level in terms of confirmation is a $5 AM radio tuned the extreme left of the dial and set to a constant volume level to hear the difference in noise levels between the two positions.

Sounds like a fun Sunday AM project after breakfast :)
 

Speedskater

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2010
941
15
368
Cleveland Ohio
Or better yet, use a RadioShack "Telephone Pickup" coil, part # 44-533 @ $9.99. connect it to a battery powered headphone amp.

But remember that the noise field decreases with the square root of distance. That is the field at 4 feet is only 25 % of the field at 2 feet.
 

daytona600

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2012
727
154
955
scotland
Rewired the mains on my system recently with nanotech GSC35 pc-occ fukawara liquid power cables covered in gold/silver liquid suspended in sharks liver oil ( not snake oil )
I purchased this at about a 1/3rd of the price on link below , did not want to pay $160 per metre

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nanotec-S...=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2ec5aaa12b

mains connection to my hifi , then furutech gold plugs & wall sockets & rewired a good quality 8way distribution block with the gsc35 cable
spent 2days crawling under floorboards & behind walls but very pleased with the results
Many thanks for the help dad , retired electrical engineer

Nanotec cable looks like it could handle at least 100amps , akin to a industrial tri-rated switchgear/control cable
must try there speaker & inconnects next
 
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Speedskater

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2010
941
15
368
Cleveland Ohio
That Nanotec Systems GSC-35 is just a little bit bigger than 10AWG so plan on 30 Amps.
How come it's only on e-bay and resellers? No manufacture?
 
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daytona600

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2012
727
154
955
scotland
I purchased locally much cheaper than ebay - maker is nanotec system from japan , cable inside is pc-occ fukawara
Only has to carry 5amps , link to there english website

http://www.nanotec-systems.jp/
 

Onepoint5

Well-Known Member
Sep 23, 2011
47
13
913
Intrigued by the theory of balanced power and the swift kick to harmonics generated by individual audio components, I built a balanced supply from industrial transformers, and ran this supply as a separate feed to the audio system.
The effects were immediate, with tightening of bass and lifting details, especially on quiet track transistions. Timbre hasn't changed, nor should it, but the low level decays like a piano fading out are very impressive. I lived with the system for a few months to give it some time, but I can't look back now after using a variety of cleaning AC tools that really are hit and miss inluding isolation transformers, Monster power conditioners.... I am so impressed with balanced power, I have on order and Equi=tech unit should arrive shortly.
I can measure from the earth pin of the power supply to any chassis, RCA connector, fixing screw on my audio system, and it reads 0.000V AC. No potential difference, no noise, no problem! Balanced power creates a clean earth. Your components can make as much song and dance as they like on the AC side as far as generating harmonics, reactive currents, conducted noises from SMPS, they end up on the earth and cancel out. Mathematics is very difficult to prove wrong.

Am intrigued by the drawing a few posts back stating that a disadvantage to using balanced power requires a GFCI. Umm, if you use an isolation transformer, you still need a GFCI, and in many countries GFCI devices are mandatory for the whole house/apartment/plant where you can plug something in to the wall.
 

TBone

New Member
Nov 15, 2012
1,237
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That's a pretty sweeping statement to make.

Perhaps, but it's based on plenty of experience.

The ambient noise level of my listening room is very low which is due in part to being 9' underground and built with poured concrete walls which are insulated on the inside and outside of the foundation. Not having any windows helps with noise issues as well.

I consider room based acoustic "noise floor" issues differently and not quite as important; my dedicated room is well isolated and quiet, but like any room, once the music starts, it can introduce added "noise" thru vibration which if not dissipated properly, will ALWAYS introduce added grain to the overall sound which often smears instrumental detail/impact.

Therefore, although isolating the room from outside influences is always a desired goal, I didn't find it nearly as important as isolating the system from the room (or room from the system). Turntables require very careful and precise OVERALL system setups in order to minimize vibration/noise from re-entering the system. In the same vain, dedicated electronic isolation proved critical. However, it's only after I started experimenting with star grounding and floating schemes that I truly started to comprehend the true meaning to the term "low-noise-floor" within my system.

tb1
 

BFlowers

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2010
103
15
923
Westlake Texas
I am in the planning stages for a new dedicated room. I have just reread this entire thread and don't feel like I have a clear grasp of what someone would/should do given a clean slate to work with. Any experts care to chime in?
 

Speedskater

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2010
941
15
368
Cleveland Ohio

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