Entreq Tellus grounding,in england

[BE718]

Thank you BE718 for the follow up. I have to head on to a date with the pillow for now and I look forward to carrying on with our conversation. I will say this though. You had mentioned that;

I would like to bounce your statement back to you in another way (another viewpoint). If a cable isn't making a large difference to the sound then you need to ask the question why. Based upon my experience in listening, this was my first thought when I read this. With that said, the pillow is calling. Have a good evening sir. Nice chatting with you tonight.

Tom

If the cable is competently designed why would it make a lot of difference? Its purpose is to be transparent. If one cable sounds quite different to a bunch of others then you really do need to ask yourself why.

If the circuit it sits in is competently designed why would it make a big difference? It is a design requirement to tolerate the use of different cables. Well those whose characteristics arent bizarely and deliberately altered to have an affect on sound.

 

[BE718]

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/brisson/brisson.html

Don't know if they are still available, but Mr. Brission of MIT did offer DIY guidance on making your own speaker cable. Poles of articulation man, that is what it is all about.

Usually just small caps, resistance of a couple or three dozen ohms across the leads that sort of thing. Here are some tear down pics of some of the MIT boxes.
http://imgur.com/a/FHOHX

You also can read an early patent:
https://www.google.com/patents/US5144522

...mmmmm...I wouldnt touch with a barge pole.

 

[esldude]

...mmmmm...I wouldnt touch with a barge pole.

Well you do need a strong, strong stomach.

 

[jkeny]

My system is double insulated. It doesnt have an earth connection.

SE is a dumb idea WRT to all of this. allowing earth currents to flow in a signal conductor is just plain dumb. I would recommend that if possible use balanced equipment.

Can you name make & model of the audio equipment in your system?
By what you say above, you recognise that the pollution of ground signal is the problem.

Are you suggesting that only balanced or class II devices should be used in audio?

I know you will probably say that only well designed systems should be used - so some practical advice - how can consumers make a judgement of this?

 

[Geardaddy]

If the cable is competently designed why would it make a lot of difference? Its purpose is to be transparent. If one cable sounds quite different to a bunch of others then you really do need to ask yourself why.

That logic is a little circular and overly reductionistic. In my system, cable changes have always been glaring whether the variable at play is "transparency" or a lack thereof. What does transparency sound like anyway? I think there is more to this discussion than honest signal transmission and measurable "noise" in the mains. I think there is also the issue of ambient "noise" in the form of RF, etc. How does this manifest in a system? Does it influence timing errors, etc leading to more or less fatigue as Nordost. "attempted" to demonstrate in 2010? As I tried to insinuate earlier in the thread, we need more sophisticated ways to measures these influences.....

 

[YashN]

Well those that believe this box who special capabilities beyond that of some ordinary cable joined to a connector block, for a start. Take a wander though this forum and you will find many examples practically religious belief in technically unfounded products.

Where?

 

[YashN]

Well if you want to spend thousands on the box instead of maybe a few dollars to solve the problem (if you even have one) that's up to you I suppose.

Who said I want to spend thousands on the box? What pathetic excuses will you make up for not believing this box can have an effect?

 

[YashN]

I don't need to measure it.

You don't? Weren't you the one harping on about the needs for measurements?

Additionally, you seem not to be able to hear differences, shouldn't you be the one making the measurements to reassure yourself if there are differences or not?

 

[YashN]

I would be highly surprised, actually amazed if it improved the noise levels in my system.

Which 'noise levels' do you mean? And at what levels should they matter?

And should they matter at measurements of silence like you so diligently and enthusiastically measured at he lead-in for the vynil recordings provided by Fiddle Faddle or are you going to measure more precisely next time?

 

[YashN]

But it sure means it is a vey expensive way to go about solving a problem that you might not even have..

Who said it has to be very expensive?

 

[YashN]

This is a perfect example of "magic". Under normal circumstances none of this is required to achieve low noise levels in a system.

No, only you, BE718, because you are thoroughly ignorant of the engineering principles come up with the pseudo-explanation of 'magic'.

Quod Erad Demonstrandum, only you and no one else came up with 'magic'.

it all had to do with proper Engineering, but you're ignorant of it, that's all. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[YashN]

My point is that the argument has already been made that Fiddle's recording system has earthing problems & the Entreq helps improve this - so the same argument will be forwarded here with regard to my ABX positive results i.e "you heard a difference in audio files when recorded with a system that had mains break-through". I'm just anticipating the objections that I expect coming from others stating that these positive ABX results "prove nothing of consequence"

To some extent, John, I can understand the limitations and I am fine with those (the reality thereof), so what I am asking is that those who are unsatisfied with Fiddle Faddle's recording and measurements, do their own and post their own measurements and results here.

 

[esldude]

That logic is a little circular and overly reductionistic. In my system, cable changes have always been glaring whether the variable at play is "transparency" or a lack thereof. What does transparency sound like anyway? I think there is more to this discussion than honest signal transmission and measurable "noise" in the mains. I think there is also the issue of ambient "noise" in the form of RF, etc. How does this manifest in a system? Does it influence timing errors, etc leading to more or less fatigue as Nordost. "attempted" to demonstrate in 2010? As I tried to insinuate earlier in the thread, we need more sophisticated ways to measures these influences.....

Though you may not accept it, this is really simple. You have a known signal for input. You can monitor the output say at the binding posts of the speaker. Transparent is when the signal at the end of the chain matches the signal input. It cannot be perfect at a bare minimum due to thermal noise. Other sources of noise can be measured and perhaps tamed or eliminated.

If your cable makes glaring differences the cable or equipment has an issue. While sources of this may be outside the audible band of frequencies it is only the change in audible sounds which can be heard as different. When done well, which isn't terribly expensive, good ole wire of the right type can transmit signal with darn little alteration of them. Certainly not glaring differences by any means. So no it isn't circular reasoning it is knowledge of how signals can be transmitted which leads one to the idea competently designed cable would not make a lot of difference.

 

[YashN]

system has earthing problems & the Entreq helps improve this - so the same argument will be forwarded here with regard to my ABX positive results i.e "you heard a difference in audio files when recorded with a system that had mains break-through".

Thing is: even for those who have extensive grounding and chassis-grounding solutions implemented, the Entreq boxes still brought improvements, so the question is: are there residual noise problems still extant that even proper chassis-grounding doesn't resolve completely?

I believe it is so, especially considering the changing nature of the electro-magnetic and other wave nature of our surroundings we are submitted to nowadays (at one point in our times, we had no cellular communications).

 

[esldude]

To some extent, John, I can understand the limitations and I am fine with those (the reality thereof), so what I am asking is that those who are unsatisfied with Fiddle Faddle's recording and measurements, do their own and post their own measurements and results here.

One fellow already did exactly that. Showing how quiet his system was. Offered to help Fiddle Faddle make his system quiet too.

Also it isn't being unsatisfied with Fiddle Faddle's measurements. When they were offered some people had suggestions that it shows some issues that could be improved upon.

And while I am at it, the Entreq in use lowered mains pollution quite a bit, but over the whole audible band it was a .5 db higher noise level than without the Entreq.

 

[YashN]

One fellow already did exactly that. Showing how quiet his system was. Offered to help Fiddle Faddle make his system quiet too.

Don't distort words and concepts here, offered his own measurements of the Entreq in his system? Where?

 

[amirm]

And while I am at it, the Entreq in use lowered mains pollution quite a bit, but over the whole audible band it was a .5 db higher noise level than without the Entreq.

Where multiple devices wired to the same Entreq? If so, then the change we have seen may have nothing to do with Entreq but change in how equipment was grounded.

 

[BE718]

That logic is a little circular and overly reductionistic. In my system, cable changes have always been glaring whether the variable at play is "transparency" or a lack thereof. What does transparency sound like anyway? I think there is more to this discussion than honest signal transmission and measurable "noise" in the mains. I think there is also the issue of ambient "noise" in the form of RF, etc. How does this manifest in a system? Does it influence timing errors, etc leading to more or less fatigue as Nordost. "attempted" to demonstrate in 2010? As I tried to insinuate earlier in the thread, we need more sophisticated ways to measures these influences.....

Not at all. Why would cables that have similar electrical parameters sound glaringly different? If that happened in my system I would be greatly concerned.

Yes RF can get into systems, earthing may well not help with that.

 

[esldude]

Don't distort words and concepts here, offered his own measurements of the Entreq in his system? Where?

Wow, you asked for measurements. He showed, as he has maintained, the Entreq is not required to get low system noise. Would the Entreq lower his noise? Who knows. Who cares perhaps. Certainly one system with an Entreq was noisier by a good margin than one without. The distortion is very high, and it isn't coming from me.

 

[BE718]

Who said I want to spend thousands on the box? What pathetic excuses will you make up for not believing this box can have an effect?

You don't? Weren't you the one harping on about the needs for measurements?

Additionally, you seem not to be able to hear differences, shouldn't you be the one making the measurements to reassure yourself if there are differences or not?

Now this is precisely what I mean when I say there is only one side of the camp here who is getting upset and throwing out the ad hominem.