Entreq Tellus grounding,in england

[spazmatron]

well the two camps are really more those who accept the ability our minds have to deceive ourselves and those who don't.

those who seek to question themselves and want to understand really what's going on will investigate beyond the restrictions of their own senses..

those who are happy in the conclusions brought by their senses will stick to that.. just listen.

of course we fool ourselves every second of the day on one level or another, a short look into the subconscious mind and its relationship with our conscious selves will confirm that.
though ignorance is bliss ...

 

[Rodney Gold]

Yeh.. the great internet audio battle.. subjectivist VS objectivist.. a dead hoss being beaten for the zillionth time.. no converts , no conclusions , no prisoners..
My take is that there is room in this hobby for both..

 

[amirm]

Most Entreq dealers will let you try the products and allow you to return them without charge apart from carriage.

I don't want to waste the resources/time of a local dealer this way.

Here is another alternative. If someone wants to buy one, I can purchase it instead, test it and then send it to them. I will go ahead and discount it by a couple hundred dollars and eat that expense. I just don't want to be out the full $1,200.

 

[jkeny]

Here ya go then - a positive set of ABX results to argue over

foo_abx 2.0.2 report
foobar2000 v1.3.8
2016-02-15 16:15:37

File A: test_4_output_entreq.wav
SHA1: bdea18a59c112d2af4175edc315691ced14b8027
File B: test_4_output_no_entreq.wav
SHA1: e8a3c98a8cf876de53da69cc49dd7d160657b862

Output:
DS : Primary Sound Driver
Crossfading: NO

16:15:37 : Test started.
16:15:57 : 01/01
16:16:20 : 02/02
16:16:33 : 03/03
16:16:44 : 04/04
16:16:54 : 05/05
16:17:06 : 06/06
16:17:19 : 07/07
16:17:34 : 08/08
16:17:48 : 09/09
16:18:00 : 10/10
16:18:10 : 11/11
16:18:23 : 12/12
16:18:33 : 13/13
16:18:43 : 14/14
16:18:53 : 15/15
16:19:04 : 16/16
16:19:04 : Test finished.

----------
Total: 16/16
Probability that you were guessing: 0.0%

-- signature --
9c4e97c36bfb5f8573e2fd178214c5024babd6df

Ran it through Foobar's signature verifier (especially designed to stop any amending of the log):
Signature matches; the log appears to be valid.

 

[amirm]

Interesting. Did you note the segment you picked and what you heard different?

 

[jkeny]

Interesting. Did you note the segment you picked and what you heard different?

Have to run now - I'll give whatever details I can, later but I can say one thing - a decent DAC is required

 

[jkeny]

OK, here's the deal - There's an audible difference between these tracks but I'm not going to say what it is because:
a) It really isn't proof of anything except that there's an audible difference as we have seen in the measured differences.
b) I want to highlight a major problem with blind testing - it's not a test which shows whether there is an audible difference, it's a test which tasks the participant to key into an exact audible difference that can be heard & train oneself until this can be routinely identified before the ABX blind test can be passed successfully. If he's not able to find this (& it's often not easy) then he concludes that he can't hear a difference & therefore it must be a very small difference (or more often, that there is no audible difference to be heard) - is this a proper conclusion? Wouldn't the less arrogant conclusion be that there may well be a difference but that he just hasn't spotted it (maybe he didn't really bother much, maybe he knows how to spot some differences but not all, maybe..........)?

So, I'm going to see how this plays out. Often, when one person finds a difference, others are spurred to greater efforts to also find a difference - sometimes it's just fear of not fitting in with the crowd that prevents people from genuinely giving a blind test a fair go

 

[YashN]

OK, here's the deal - There's an audible difference between these tracks but I'm not going to say what it is because:

Interesting enough. It relates to my findings (just listening).

a) It really isn't proof of anything except that there's an audible difference as we have seen in the measured differences.

Here, I do not agree with you. Do you find you prefer the sound of one or the other? That's the whole point.

Well, more precisely the whole point should be 'is one or the other providing a more accurate reproduction?'

 

[YashN]

. But why, for example, would you not line the inside of the box with RF shielding if you really wanted to prevent the antenna effect (which I along with others) suspect is possibly happening here?

Interesting question - it would be a good thing to try on a box, either the Entreq or a DIY one. It would be especially interesting if the SQ goes down instead of up as we would expect.

By they way, so far as the attitudes and behaviour of people on this forum, there are lately some "science-minded" contributors to this thread who do not necessarily (or at all) believe in the product, want evidence yet are behaving in an approachable and mature way. Quite possibly because not once have they used derogatory terms aimed repeatedly and directly at the product ad nauseam and are merely trying to carry on a worthy discussion so that we can all be educated. I don't mind in the slightest "losing" to these people and being educated by them (for example, jkeny, Amir , Elsdude, etc). Some people are not on that list and I am honestly not sure they themselves even have the remotest clue as to how they repeatedly come across to others (so not just me I can tell you).

Some people just pay lip service to the scientific method as well and in fact are incapable of doing it properly.

 

[YashN]

Honestly, though, it sounds like I should just bow out of this thread right now. Not because I am excessively annoyed, but because I don't think I am going to remotely satisfy any measurement guys and it was never intention to get into a debate with you all in the first place.

The measurement guys just have to do their own measurements and post them instead of constantly complaining.

 

[YashN]

I came up with an "engineering" way around Entreq boxes. It will be much improved sound. It won't have the faults of the Entreq boxes either. You put 1/2in aluminum boxes around literally everything in your stereo; appliances & cables.

Not sure if you're serious of not, but doesn't this sound what we try to achieve by doing proper chassis grounding in the first place?

In that case, maybe you should re-read the thread on Entreq that SpiritOfMusic created because you will see reports of people who already have great chassis grounding still benefit from adding an Entreq product...

 

[YashN]

It may well be that anything the Entreq does is emulated by star grounding the various audio devices in the replay chain but that is just a claim that hasn't been proven as yet.

It's similar to it but bear in mind that it deals with 'signal grounding' only, so it's meant to be used in addition to your system be it in 'star-grounding' configuration or not.

 

[YashN]

There seems to be a prevailing view amongst many that there is some kind of "magic" involved with HiFi.

You're the only one that I see here talking about 'magic' here. Where are the others of the 'prevailing view'?

 

[YashN]

How much does the cheapest one of these boxes cost and is there a money back guarantee? If so, I can get one to test and if it doesn't do anything, return it.

There's a much cheaper way to test that kind of thing: DIY.

I did it for purely aural tests and it was worth it (NB: my own system doesn't use balanced power nor balanced ICs, so it's far from ideal).

Plus I used a minimal understanding of what the box was to do my test, i.e. they were very rudimentary (but still worked).

Now that you've seen the entrails of the Entreq (and not the insides of the Entrail), you have the possibility of building one nearer the original design to test it, and of course, for far much less, and not much time either.

 

[YashN]

I dont look for fairies at the bottom of the garden to explain something that is really a basic noise problem, shielding/grounding regime issue.

The manufacturer claimed nothing other than that.

 

[YashN]

My whole workstation setup has been star grounded since day 1. I set it up that way and paid an extraordinary amount of attention to a high quality grounding setup. But still the box improves the sound.

Exactly what I found intriguing in the first place. And you're not the only one reporting this. Some people who already have Tripoint devices and quite expensive and highly-rated gear also benefited from the Entreq in addition.

 

[BE718]

The measurement guys just have to do their own measurements and post them instead of constantly complaining.

Oh for goodness sake. Who is complaining? Fiddle posted some measurements which clearly indicated a problem with noise in his system, a problem which is altered by attaching the entreq. Instead of wanting to find and solve that problem he would rather attach the entreq an say 'everything is good".

That's entirely up to him, if he is happy that's fine, no one is complaining about it. The only complaints I have seen in this thread are from the subjective camp who seem very agitated that their POV might be challenged..

 

[YashN]

I can assure you that this can be solved without resorting to esoteric and expensive solutions such as the Entreq.

Probably, but it doesn't mean in any way whatsoever that the Entreq cannot be effective.

 

[YashN]

Oh for goodness sake. Who is complaining?

You, BE718, were complaining loudly.

Have you done your own measurements of the Entreq?

If so, where are they posted?

 

[YashN]

I have read somewhere that the black granular contents inside the Entrq box might be mainly magnetite - a naturally occurring oxide of iron. This is not confirmed, AFAIK but may be of interest to consider the electrical conductivity of this material? I would think some expertise in this area would be needed to judge whether this has any potential role in grounding between multiple devices?

Some information here - it seems that in some forms (nano particles) it's electrical behaviour is semiconductor like in nature!

BTW, Just as an interesting aside - magnetite occurs in birds beaks as a navigation organ which uses earth's magnetic fields for navigation - magnetite was used in compasses of old as it is a natural magnet

There are characteristics in materials which can be used very fruitfully for passive 'grounding' or cleanup solutions. Case in point: Caelin Gabriel uses a particular one in some of his boxes of Shunyata products.

During my research on the subject, I found another class of materials which could be helpful in a similar way for 'grounding'. I know the characteristic but I still have to find a suitable commonly-available material for testing. There could be several of those.