Entreq Tellus grounding,in england

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What is the basis of that belief? Experiments you have run?


OK tell us which low-res 2 channel system and home theater you have tried it on.

It's simple...lower Rez/home theatre systems have more unpleasant distortions, higher noise floors and generally don't sound as good as typically more expensive separate component based systems. Because if this, cleaning up the signal ground may not prove noticeable to your ears. It does on a well sorted higher Rez two channel system. I hear it. I have no interest or desire to try it in the home theatre receiver upstairs. There are many things in audio that affect sound that you cannot measure and understand correctly with your hobbyist electrical background. A test is only as good as the tester. Me thinks you aren't good enough to come up with credible and meaningful test results. Again, what system do you do your listening evaluations on ?
 
It's simple...lower Rez/home theatre systems have more unpleasant distortions, higher noise floors and generally don't sound as good as typically more expensive separate component based systems. Because if this, cleaning up the signal ground may not prove noticeable to your ears. It does on a well sorted higher Rez two channel system. I hear it.
So you have a theory that you think we should know about yet have no experience with it. And you know what I can or cannot hear to boot.

I have no interest or desire to try it in the home theatre receiver upstairs. There are many things in audio that affect sound that you cannot measure and understand correctly with your hobbyist electrical background. A test is only as good as the tester. Me thinks you aren't good enough to come up with credible and meaningful test results.
You seem to be taking a position that you can have a strong opinion on audibility of something, in this case low-res systems, but no obligation to try it before sharing it with us. Actual experience before claiming something is true doesn't seem to be requirement for you in this matter. Yet while discussing the very topic you seem to have disdain for someone not trying the device in question. Which version of your belief should we hold true in this regard?
 
Adding on, a corollary of what rockitman is saying is that the higher quality the system, the more it is in need of such devices. Do people agree with this?
 
Again, what system do you do your listening evaluations on ?
To what end? If I told you what the system is, without hearing it, you will be in a position to say Entreq works or doesn't work on it? If so, walk us through how you would do that analysis. And what enables you to have such skill.
 
Adding on, a corollary of what rockitman is saying is that the higher quality the system, the more it is in need of such devices. Do people agree with this?

Draw whatever inference turns your measurement thang on Amir. Have at it. I was clear in my post. I have no interest or desire for audio measurement masturbation exercises. I trust what I see. I also trust what I hear too given time and experience.
 
Adding on, a corollary of what rockitman is saying is that the higher quality the system, the more it is in need of such devices. Do people agree with this?

Ah, come on, Amir you are becoming ridiculous - I suggest it's time to step back & take a breath - what Rockitman said about the inherent noise in a system masking any improvement in this area is perfectly correct
 
Draw whatever inference turns your measurement thang on Amir. Have at it. I was clear in my post. I have no interest or desire for audio measurement masturbation exercises. I trust what I see. I also trust what I hear too given time and experience.
What measurement? I am going by what you are saying that the higher the resolution a system, the more apt it is to need such boxes. Are you standing by this or backtracking?
 
Ah, come on, Amir you are becoming ridiculous - I suggest it's time to step back & take a breath - what Rockitman said about the inherent noise in a system masking any improvement in this area is perfectly correct
So you can make that statement without ownership of said systems, or hearing the same. Correct?
 
What measurement? I am going by what you are saying that the higher the resolution a system, the more apt it is to need such boxes. Are you standing by this or backtracking?

Neither. I have said what I wanted and not really interested in a debate regarding Entreq or that more expensive systems tend to sound better than cheaper ones.
 
So you can make that statement without ownership of said systems, or hearing the same. Correct?

If you argue such a fundamental point I do believe you have lost all perspective - the inherent noise floor of a system can certainly mask improvements.
 
Do you have a problem telling us what your system is Amir?
As you know mine is there for all to see on my profile.
On this topic your every contribution is lowering my view of your credibility.
Sorry but that's my reaction.
 
If you argue such a fundamental point I do believe you have lost all perspective - the inherent noise floor of a system can certainly mask improvements.
How do you know that inherent noise floor is not lowered with this device? If it is not lowering that noise, what noise is it lowering and why?
 
Neither. I have said what I wanted and not really interested in a debate regarding Entreq or that more expensive systems tend to sound better than cheaper ones.
OK then. My system is very expensive. So I hope that settles that argument :).

Now back to my question nobody here knows that such devices work better on cheap systems versus expensive and why?
 
i see you're trapped in your logic box again amir, you are perfectly correct in your reason. sadly your logical fundamentalist debating skills are not progressing/penetrating the reasoning of others.

fear not though i appreciate them!

its funny amir, when you corner your pray with your sharp spear of logical argument and slay their tired hearts the buggers never say thank you..

its folly to apply such strict reason to the practitioners of a thoroughly unreasoned past time but i admire your resolve in continuing to insist on doing just that.

you may of fallen out of love with the royal cavalry but i remain ready to whisk you away from the danger of the inevitable uprising you are hell bent on inspiring.
 
How do you know that inherent noise floor is not lowered with this device? If it is not lowering that noise, what noise is it lowering and why?

I don't know what you're talking about? The point I'm debating with you is that Rockitman is perfectly correct that the inherent noise floor of a system is a fundamental determining factor in the audibility of improvements - I really don't know what you are arguing about?
 
I find it interesting that a post just made on the Intona thread showing it's measured improvement is accepted without question & yet it shows an abysmal measured noise floor for the device pre-Intona - it has -60dB noise floor @ LF & -70dB @ HF (when the FFT graph is adjusted for FFT gain)

This is a great example of a "broken" system that needs fixing instead of an add-on box.
Does this mantra not apply to the Intona then?

Here's the "measurements are showing a typical ground loop issue" as Intona state. Is what's being said here is that a "typical ground loop" requires an add-on box?
Are we saying an add-on box is OK if it' called Intona but not if it's called Entreq?
Some consistency would be welcome
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What you saying? That we leave such claims unchallenged:



I don't think so. Not under the watch of King of Audio. No horse is safe....

Challenging in fairness is great Amir and I believe it is even more critically important here given the sensitivities of the argument for our leaders to take the higher road and act in ways that inspire and set the tone and direction for all. I applaud your determination to trial the Entreq gear but I also believe the challenge for you will now be to do it in a way that exemplifies fairness given the clear pre test biases that you have against the product prior to any practical assessment.

So when asked how you were going to plan the test of Entreq's gear your unfortunate response was that you were setting it all up on a poo stained pair of underpants, regrettably not so much the high road as the bottom road (and before one of the lackeys launches in again and misses with another cheap ad hominem salvo challenging my obviously complete lack of any sense of humour) I must admit that more importantly I don't think this is actually quite as funny as it is inappropriate.

I figure and hope that we all believe in the importance of fairness and transparency in assessment procedure. I work professionally in the field on teaching in both objective and subjective assessment and also in reviewing and validating assessment process and think here is an instance that was potentially a bit of a water shed moment where you could have probably done much better. It is a shame that in your clear and obvious frustrations (as well as some well considered and pre-determined doubts and concerns that you have over this type of product) that you might have maybe just lost sight of the best spirit of appropriate restraint when acting out in such full on overt prejudgement and just taking a crack with some poo stained disdain.

Without being toooo serious you are however also supposed to be a leader here. Maybe before you are seen to just hang this gear maybe you should actually give it a genuinely fair and open trial and that the visible quality of procedure here is now every bit as important as the assessment outcome. This really could have become a benchmark moment in some quality assessment given the history and nature of this topic if just handled in a more transparent and whole way with more rightness of purpose.

I'm figuring in reflection (given your professional career with Microsoft that you would likely have worked with standards for best practice in communications) that this kind of comment isn't a picture of you actually putting your best foot forward. As a leader maybe not your best moment but we all say awkward stuff on the internet that isn't at times the best of us however this is also unrepresentative of the best of this forum.

This comment would obviously make it reasonable for anyone to doubt any true impartiality or ultimate fairness of any assessment you might then make after saying it. Am I being unfair expecting the best of you as one of our leaders? Maybe... that is your call.

The challenge and opportunity here should be to turn this around into a better moment for the whole forum by using this as a model to develop a better, more true and fair assessment process embracing a range of both objective and subjective assessments. I understand exactly how this might be difficult as it would be much greater task and a more challenging road. But there is a magnitude of great resource in both primary areas of assessment here and this could only really be done in an atmosphere of true co-operation by a range of people from across the audio spectrum here. Perhaps those with subjective understanding could help by defining more specifically what this type of gear brings to their experience of listening to music and then the more technically skilled could then try to devise the best specific technique in some way to then measure that.

I for one never felt the Entreq's dominant characteristics were so much about lowering the noise floor so much as changing the way the music was experienced... shifting the balance of distortions in their different harmonics and that specifically the architecture of the music was changed, more fluid. This has been the most consistent reflection on the change in the patterns of perceptions that the gear does when wired into the listening experience. So can we try and measure that, it would be great to get some traction in this argument and some genuine enlightenment as I'm fairly sure that this current state of the debate is tired and dulled from intransigence. Maybe you could carry out both some objective and subjective assessment and to improve the transparency of your assessment do it in a benchmark setup with people who have already identified the effect is clear within their systems.

Perhaps this particular assessment for a bit of gear that has generated so much debate could actually serve as a better model of assessment that moves us forward and truly represents the best future for what's best forum.
 
I don't know what you're talking about? The point I'm debating with you is that Rockitman is perfectly correct that the inherent noise floor of a system is a fundamental determining factor in the audibility of improvements - I really don't know what you are arguing about?
Exactly that. Explain why I don't see the biggest and hence most audible difference in lower end equipment with higher "inherent noise floor" if the purpose of such a device is to help with noise.
 
Exactly that. Explain why I don't see the biggest and hence most audible difference in lower end equipment with higher "inherent noise floor" if the purpose of such a device is to help with noise.

There are many reasons for higher system noise - not just the result of ground noise issues - I thought this went without saying?
So improving ground noise in such a system (by using an Entereq) could very easily be inaudible due to the masking of the inherently higher noise floor
 
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