Entreq Tellus grounding,in england

[amirm]

I completely agree Barry and would like to suggest to esldude that perhaps his post is somewhat inflammatory

You too??? Here is an x-ray of a couple of iPhones:

If we were discussing said phones and someone suggested we use such x-ray imaging, you would consider that wrong and inflammatory? For a doctor who uses diagnostic imaging in his work, I am shocked to hear your point of view. What gives?

 

[Steve williams]

You too??? Here is an x-ray of a couple of iPhones:

If we were discussing said phones and someone suggested we use such x-ray imaging, you would consider that wrong and inflammatory? For a doctor who uses diagnostic imaging in his work, I am shocked to hear your point of view. What gives?

And I suppose you thought his post was sincere and not meant to be sarcastic. Once again you obfuscate and deflect.

 

[esldude]

Yes strange reaction. Nothing I suggest lacks transparency. Per would know I included him supplying internal pics which along with x-rays would satisfy Amir's wanting to know the internals without breaking open the boxes. I see zero difference between that and electronic measurement of what goes on inside.

 

[BE718]

There is a bit of a rubber band effect with Entreq in my experience, spaz. I actually saw it happen when I did my amateur measurements just using the "second sound card" technique. I'd pull the plug and the noise floor did not drop right away. It slowly dropped, then remained somewhat steady after 15 minutes. Same thing happens when it re-connected. Entreq I believe says some time connected is needed for the full results to appear and I do have to say I literally saw this happen with my eyes, not my ears. I think anyone wanting to test Entreq would really want to have the box and cable connected for a full 48 hours to do "with" testing and 24 hours disconnected for "without" testing. I wasn't so pedantic in my tsting because my test rig playback sound card only has a quoted S/N of 117dB at 48 KHz to begin with (and 114 at 96) and I wasn't going to sit there for days when the workstation was needed for other stuff.

Oddly enough, in my first experienced that was a failure (the one with the "antenna" interconnect), I could see the high frequency noise floor change immediately when the Entreq was connected / disconnected. But after building a "proper" interconnect, I then witnessed the rubber band effect.

I actually did the test a few times to make sure what I was seeing was repeatable and representative and was not due to some other factors unrelated to Entreq.

Yes it was interesting that the HF noise went up with the entreq initially even though the mains harmonics went down. So what you did next was fix the problem (cable) and the entreq started making very little difference to the measured noise levels. What have I been saying from the start? BTW you still have what I would consider an unacceptable level of mains harmonics in your system. There is something that still needs to be investigated and fixed. After which I am sure the entreq will do absolutely nothing useful.

 

[BE718]

Happy Saturday to all. I've been away for the past 8 days and completely off the grid. Catching up on the posts at WBF in the past week has brought me to this thread and close to 30 pages of posts. I have to say first off as a member but more importantly as an administrator and owner of this forum that I was truly embarrassed to have read what I did here by many members. Clearly there is a difference in opinions between those who own the product and take pride in their ownership because of what they hear vs those who not only don't own the product but have never heard it and slam it and its manufacturer without ever hearing the product. Personally I don't own it and have no pony in the game but I take great objection to these armchair engineers who on the basis of their claimed credentials continue to offer up their "opinion" that it is nothing but cat litter. Perhaps but my question is to the naysayers why won't you just put one as offered in your systems and then tell us your opinions. I feel as well that it is healthy to have differences of opinions but to myself as well as many readers here it seems bothersome that opinions be offered as sacrosanct without ever having heard the product. Further I felt comments about P-O as being a farmer and therefore incapable of making something that would benefit audiophiles as truly bothersome. How many great ideas, inventions, creations etc have come from ordinary people like you and I.

Personally I give more credence to those who have heard this equipment and voiced their opinion, be it positive or negative, than to those who have never heard it but claim it be impossible to glean any sonic benefit.

Of course this is just my opinion but again I have to apologize to P-O as well as to others who were offended by such comments

...and then you insult people by calling them armchair engineers.....OK..........well at least some of us are actually qualified and experienced in the relevant fields unlike the designer of the product......

You do not have to hear a product to make an assessment of its technical (lack of) virtue.

Whats your technical assessment / opinion of how the box (allegedly) works?

I absolutely distrust others subjective opinions due to the inherent flaws that many of the subjectivists seemingly refuse to acknowledge, ie expectation bias etc, etc, etc

 

[BE718]

There is a bit of a rubber band effect with Entreq in my experience, spaz. I actually saw it happen when I did my amateur measurements just using the "second sound card" technique. I'd pull the plug and the noise floor did not drop right away. It slowly dropped, then remained somewhat steady after 15 minutes. Same thing happens when it re-connected. .

No, the noise would have changed immediately. However if you are using avering in your measurements what you saw on the screen would take time to stabilise.

 

[BE718]

I agree. That's my experience too - as the noise floor decreases, the listening experience become more realistic. I don't know if this is because we can then hear a more natural sonic tail to sounds or because by reducing noise we are also probably reducing noise modulation - it's probably a combination of both factors

How do you measure the noise floor in your DACs JK? Thats not a facecious question, I want to know how you know when the noise floor in whatever equipment you are listening to has decreased?

 

[jkeny]

How do you measure the noise floor in your DACs JK? Thats not a facecious question, I want to know you know when the noise floor in whatever equipment you are listening to has decreased?

I don't need to measure it as when I use a LiFePO4 battery I know it is lower noise than any PS it replaces

 

[BE718]

I don't need to measure it as when I use a LiFePO4 battery I know it is lower noise than any PS it replaces

So in other words you dont know. You jave assumed the DAC output is lower noise. BTW that wasnt just a question about your DACs. It was a more general question about the kit you listen to and how you justify your statement about your perceptions V the kit noise level.

 

[Steve williams]

...and then you insult people by calling them armchair engineers.....OK..........well at least some of us are actually qualified and experienced in the relevant fields unlike the designer of the product......

You do not have to hear a product to make an assessment of its technical (lack of) virtue.

Whats your technical assessment / opinion of how the box (allegedly) works?

I absolutely distrust others subjective opinions due to the inherent flaws that many of the subjectivists seemingly refuse to acknowledge, ie expectation bias etc, etc, etc

as I said I have no pony in the game and said earlier that I take credence from those who have listened whether this be positive or negative. Some here through all of these thousands of pages of Entreq posts have claimed no change after listening.I respect that.

So take up the challenge even if your system says there is no need. People respect that more rather than someone pumping their chests and saying there is no need to listen.I say take off your engineer data driven mind and give it a listen.Use your ears for once Then to come back and say such is the same as me doing that much needed physical examination. Short of that yes, IMHO is see that as armchair engineering.

 

[jkeny]

So in other words you dont know. You jave assumed the DAC output is lower noise. BTW that wasnt just a question about your DACs. It was a more general question about the kit you listen to and how you justify your statement about your perceptions V the kit noise level.

No you are wrong! Measurements of LiFePO4 battery noise has been done, I don't need to repeat it. When I did my initial design, I used my 100MHz scope to roughly look at PS noise & it very noticeably dropped
So yes when I change from a VBUS regulated PS to battery in my DACs , I note the improvement in realism of the sound & know that it's related to lower noise. I have witnessed it in other devices too in changing to these batteries.

 

[amirm]

And I suppose you thought his post was sincere and not meant to be sarcastic. Once again you obfuscate and deflect.

Your posts continue to be off-topic Steve. Do you have something to contribute to the OP of the thread?

 

[Steve williams]

I'll contribute as I see fit Amir but thanks for your concern

 

[jkeny]

Your posts continue to be off-topic Steve. Do you have something to contribute to the OP of the thread?

it's rather a pity you didn't intervene in a similar manner when "kitty litter", entrails & other denigrating remarks were being used by members? What exactly were they contributing?

 

[treitz3]

Posts #581 and #582 of this thread. Page 59. Pay very close attention to both. Then please read the preceding posts that lead up to this....perhaps the preceding two pages. Then tell us who is off topic.

Tom

 

[Fiddle Faddle]

There has been little to no slamming of manufacturer.

You are living in fairyland. Actually I think you have now ventured well and truly into the delusional zone.

 

[BE718]

as I said I have no pony in the game and said earlier that I take credence from those who have listened whether this be positive or negative. Some here through all of these thousands of pages of Entreq posts have claimed no change after listening.I respect that.

So take up the challenge even if your system says there is no need. People respect that more rather than someone pumping their chests and saying there is no need to listen.I say take off your engineer data driven mind and give it a listen.Use your ears for once Then to come back and say such is the same as me doing that much needed physical examination. Short of that yes, IMHO is see that as armchair engineering.

Your challenge is non sensical. Just as the notion that you cant have an informed technical opinion about the product without having listened to it. What you personally choose to respect is of no actual relevance.

The product is meant to deal with noise. I have clearly demonstrated I have no noise issue in my system. So what would be the purpose? If anything I think it could possibly cause a noise issue.

Are you suggesting it does something beyond reducing noise? If so what?

I most certainly wouldn't waste my own money on this basis, but please feel free to buy me a box and send it through. I will measure and listen under blind conditions and report back.

 

[BE718]

No you are wrong! Measurements of LiFePO4 battery noise has been done, I don't need to repeat it. When I did my initial design, I used my 100MHz scope to roughly look at PS noise & it very noticeably dropped
So yes when I change from a VBUS regulated PS to battery in my DACs , I note the improvement in realism of the sound & know that it's related to lower noise. I have witnessed it in other devices too in changing to these batteries.

We are not talking about power supply noise, we are talking about DAC output noise. BTW a scope is wholly inadequate on its own for assessing the level and nature of noise in a system. So as I said you have no objective information to base your claim upon.

 

[treitz3]

Hello BE718, if you have no noise in your system then why do you present a position that this unit does nothing at all? Without hearing it, might I add. Just curious as to why you would be so involved within the discussion...

Tom

 

[Steve williams]