He said he asked him "Is it about getting the best sound or the thrill of the chase?" The guy responded "definitely about the thrill of the chase." To me this really describes the term "audiophile" as it applies to a person.
...a classic moment in fora history. Bravo, sir.The hobo asks if there will be boxcars in heaven. Are you still an audiophile if you get off the train?
(...) I have used the term as an adjective, as when I described certain power cords as audiophile power cords, or "fancy" power cords. I have also used the term to describe some acoustic treatments when distinguishing panels and tubes from other forms of treatment like rugs, paintings, and furniture. I was ridiculed for using the term "fancy", so I switched to "audiophile", but to me they often mean the same thing, as opposed to basic, industrial alternatives. Same with connectors, outlets, etc. Price, materials, and presentation all factor into "audiophile" grade products. (...)
Peter,
IMHO the depicted power cable makes my system sound better - the piano is more real, decays have more information and transients are more musical. It is now powering the whole XLF/cj/dCS currently playing in my room. Surely I can't afford it and I must return it by tomorrow, but I have enjoyed this audiophile experience.
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BTW do you consider that a $100 connector is "fancy" and that our four box $50k preamplifier needing very expensive matched tube sets is not "fancy"?
I agree with Peter’s sentiments as I think I strive for something similar to himself , however I have a problem with it, for people who don’t in the main listen to acoustic instruments , and some who only listen to electronicaNatural Sound refers to what one remembers from hearing acoustic instruments in a concert hall. Natural Sound is both convincing and believable. Real sound can be anything. Distorted sound from my television or telephone is still real sound, but it hardly sounds natural. Any sound coming out of any stereo system is real sound. Some of it is also natural sound.
I think natural sound is a more descriptive term.
I became even more puzzled when a reviewer recently said a tube amplifier couldn’t reproduce the “bite“ of a guitar amplifier only a solid state amp could in his opinion
I don’t know a lot about electric guitars , but it did seem strange to me that a tube amplifier couldn’t reproduce a tube amplifier ?
I agree with Peter’s sentiments as I think I strive for something similar to himself , however I have a problem with it, for people who don’t in the main listen to acoustic instruments , and some who only listen to electronica
I am unclear what then would be “‘natural sound” as some of this music is not something you would ever even here ”live”
as it’s not to my taste this sort of music, it pretty much defines much of contemporary music
clearly far more people these days listen to this sort of music but is a heavily distorted guitar amp “natural”
I became even more puzzled when a reviewer recently said a tube amplifier couldn’t reproduce the “bite“ of a guitar amplifier only a solid state amp could in his opinion
I don’t know a lot about electric guitars , but it did seem strange to me that a tube amplifier couldn’t reproduce a tube amplifier ?
so what is Natural sound in this context?
Natural sound and high fidelity sound are often at odds with one another because Natural sound is often low fidelity.Actually there are 2 disagreements
One is with the statement itself .
The other regarding what is actually high fidelity sound reproduction , it seems to each person/ group of persons it means something different .
The result is a endless stream of (component ) discussions .
You wanna start the fight all over again here lol.Natural sound is often low fidelity.
Natural sound and high fidelity sound are often at odds with one another because Natural sound is often low fidelity.
It's possible. I think Tang might have NS hifi. It's very easy, though, to spend big bucks on low fi.These are two different axes. You can have NS in Lo-fi or hi-fi, and you can fake sound in lo fi or hi fi.
It's possible. I think Tang might have NS hifi.
Bingo, gryphon and Magico or insert other the same speaker typeBest blues guitaring I heard was Pnoe with Mayer 46. best rock with electric guitar was at Mike's, followed by Altec 817 with 3.5 watt push pull tube amps. Agreed that 2 of those systems are extreme outliers that cannot be used to generalize, but the VOTT is/was a standard design. That reviewer must be someone like soundstage ultra who has zero experience with SETs and whose natural is Gryphon into Magico. Most of the legendary guitarists used tube amplifiers.
I always struggle with this Tim. I get where you are coming from in that what the synthesist is attempting to do is fundamentally synthetic but everything we do within our recording and audio systems is about synthesis. None of it is real, just purely synthetic reproduction. So successful synthesis is in the end much like Keyser Soze (aka Lagonda) as the ultimate trickster in The Usual Suspects.You raise an interesting topic which I boil down to: can the synthesist have a reference other than himself (his personal preferences) for assessing how well his system reproduces an electronic instrument performance, say rock music?
This implies a shareable reference, in the same sense that the naturalist has a shareable acoustic reference such as an orchestra on stage or jazz trio in a club. (I won't go into the naturalist/synthesist distinction if you don't know it. You'll need to do your own catch-up homework on this. Open the above link in a separate window.)
Among electric instruments, the electric guitar (including electric bass) is probably the most common - and to the extent one can say any electric instrument has a 'standard' or known sound, - the sound of the electric guitar is probably best known when it is plugged straight into an amp and does not include pre-processing such as a wah-wah pedal or a fuzz pedal or other electronic signal manipulator. Once we get past the electric guitar the only other electric instrument I can think of that has a standardized sound - a sound I would recognize regardless of performer - is a Hammond B3 electric organ. (There may be other such instruments.)
Is there an archetype sound for an electric guitar? I'm sceptical, but willing to hear the case for such. I am curious if there may be an archetype sound derived from 'live' performances for an electric guitar played by a specific performer, against which one can assess the relative believability of a system in reproducing it. I played keyboards in rock bands for several years and there is a definitive sound of a Fender guitar into an Fender amp as contrasted to say a Gibson guitar into a Fender amp - when heard live.
Going further: are the characteristics by which we assess the reproduction of an acoustic performance (tone, dynamics, timing, ambience) applicable to electronic music. I don't know - I'm fairly confident that for much of electronic music there are no such characteristics; consider for example, Kraftwerk or Trentemoller. But Chet Atkins ...?
I invite you (or anyone) to start a thread on this topic if you're willing to provide a cogent opening statement and a position. I only add the proviso as you express your own scepticism or uncertainty about where to go with this. It could be a great thread.
As @bonzo75 observes, a lot great rock guitarists used tube amplifiers. Hendrix and Clapton played Fender Stratocasters and used Marshall (tubes) and sometimes Fender (tubes) amplifiers (among others.) With regard to questions about amplifiers reproducing amplifiers and amplified sound - I see no basis for thinking there is an inherent bias or necessity for tube or solid state amps. This comes down to the same question - what assemblage of a system reproduces rock music in a way that is closer or farther from what you hear live.
I get where you are coming from in that what the synthesist is attempting to do is fundamentally synthetic but everything we do within our recording and audio systems is about synthesis.
Please define “Natural” sound and low fidelity Brian. Which systems are you basing it on when you claim this is often the case, must have been many!Natural sound and high fidelity sound are often at odds with one another because Natural sound is often low fidelity.
I can see there could be an expectation dichotomy here, at times I think ‘natural sound “ at first could be perceived as low fidelity only on more direct observation realise it is more deeply correct, in an example a live piano when heard is often taken for granted when heard Reproduced correctly there may be an initial reaction to take it for granted in the same breadth so to speak,Please define “Natural” sound and low fidelity Brian. Which systems are you basing it on when you claim this is often the case, must have been many!
david