At its price the Lampi server is only worth buying if it beats servers well above its price point, and so far there have been no such compares, so we will have to wait. I have asked for one to be taken to someone who has a W20 so that I can compare, but no luck so far. I know that PhilipAc on the UK forums replaced his W20 with this, but Philip is a more private individual so difficult to calibrate ears.
GG, Nagra HD, Aqua Formula, and SGM server.
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
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At its price the Lampi server is only worth buying if it beats servers well above its price point, and so far there have been no such compares, so we will have to wait. I have asked for one to be taken to someone who has a W20 so that I can compare, but no luck so far. I know that PhilipAc on the UK forums replaced his W20 with this, but Philip is a more private individual so difficult to calibrate ears.
as I recall discussing this issue with Edward Hsu, Linux is nosier than the latest Windows OS as an operating system as implemented on the SGM. Linux has limitations since it's not as refined and sorted out. turns out windows benefits from being a commercial product verses Linux being open-source. maybe Ed can elaborate or correct me if my understanding is wrong.
Mike, I know everything is recording dependent etc, but are the early positive impressions of Formula-SGM sufficiently good to get you to reappraise analog's long held margin over digital?
In other words, has this digital combo broken thru a very critical glass ceiling?
In other words, has this digital combo broken thru a very critical glass ceiling?
interesting you asking that.
I'd not listened to my vinyl for 10 days or so as I've been enjoying the Formula-SGM. but Tuesday night a friend from out of town was over, and we listened to quite a bit of digital and then some vinyl. certainly he liked my digital more than before (last summer), but the vinyl was also better than before. the new Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement has now fully broken in, and it is breathtaking.....no other word for it. I did do one other thing about 10 days ago, I switched out 6 of my Wave Kinetics A10 U8 footers's for three BDR cones beneath the dart pre, sitting on the Herzan. not sure how much that effected things, but for whatever reason 'in total' the vinyl was just soaring to new heights. really just silly good. we were listening to some jazz and blues at warp 9 and it just lifted off somewhere wonderful. note decay, cohesion, and overall flow just a world beyond the digital. so yes; I'm thrilled with the digital that I'm experiencing with the Formula-SGM-Herzan....it's got a rightness (more similar in character to my vinyl) and musicality that I find easy to enjoy. but vinyl at it's best just goes to another dimension in degrees. both the digital and the vinyl are improving.
yesterday I was reading about how MQA seemingly matched vinyl and tape. thinking about my experience Tuesday night, I commented to not get too carried away about MQA. trying to justify MQA by equating it to vinyl or tape just speaks to one's references for those formats.
there are no absolutes really, and how will this all play out in the long term? am I done with my digital travels for a while or am I still searching? is there other digital combinations that get closer to vinyl?
all questions.
I think its more that the Win10 SGM uses is highly tailored and stripped down. They shut down as much non-essentials as possible and use DLLs to prioritize music over all over tasks. Similar to what Phil does for Win2012 Server edition with Audiophile Optimizer.
However, there are Audiophile versions of Linux too, like Audiolihich is th nux from Italy, but the main advantage with Win10 is that it pairs well with Roon that linked elegantly to HQP, which is the raison d'etre for SGM.
Lets also not forget that SGM is pushing for that last 1%, so the BOM can be 50-100% more than something that is say 95% as good. Its an envelope pushing exercise. To me the nice comparison would be something like a $20K Laufertecnik Memory Player (by Mark Porzilli). Unlike SGM that is hardware refinement focussed mainly and leaves the software impact to HQP, the MPlayer seems to be of more standard hardware, with a lot of proprietary software implementations like the memory defragger and RUR, (read until right) tech, to name just 2... Oh, and another I hear people talking about is the BEAST server from Switzerland. I know nothing about it yet though. Need to check it out if its in my region of CH.
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Mike, my analogy is that the best digital, by that I mean SGM-pwrd HQP is running closer to analog, but they remain in different races
Analog was already a mature technology in 1983 when cd was released
It's had another c35 yrs to fine tune and push on, whereas digital has had to travel in leaps and bounds to even get "near"
And even now, just when SGM-Formula in effect is breathing on the neck of yr tt, a cartridge installs into yr setup that just ups the ante
Kinda reminds me of the Olympics 100m final where Usain Bolt's rivals appeared to be closing on him, but in the last 30m, he just went up a gear, and breezed to victory
Looks like it'll be a while yet before the sheer phenomenon of listening to vinyl really gets seriously challenged or matched
Analog was already a mature technology in 1983 when cd was released
It's had another c35 yrs to fine tune and push on, whereas digital has had to travel in leaps and bounds to even get "near"
And even now, just when SGM-Formula in effect is breathing on the neck of yr tt, a cartridge installs into yr setup that just ups the ante
Kinda reminds me of the Olympics 100m final where Usain Bolt's rivals appeared to be closing on him, but in the last 30m, he just went up a gear, and breezed to victory
Looks like it'll be a while yet before the sheer phenomenon of listening to vinyl really gets seriously challenged or matched
Oh sure, maybe the accelerating returns on digital are pushing analog on
But it still feels like Bolt having a breather 7s into the 100m and then striding to easy victory
But it still feels like Bolt having a breather 7s into the 100m and then striding to easy victory
Windows 10 is also the operating system for XBox. Improving the Windows 10 game performance had a high priority for Microsoft and they truly pulled the rabbit out of the hat in February 2015. The audio performance of Windows 10 took an unexpected big jump during its test program. Developing the Win 10 OS to improve performance of computationally intensive and graphics intensive video games had a spin off of significantly improved audio performance as well.
The other big reason for our preference for Win 10, is the organized and well structured development environment for ASIO drivers. Open source Linux, relying on the time and energy of its volunteers, is having a tough time co-ordinating it's many strands.
By building the SGM OS from Win 10 components, we get
- Xbox performance standard code execution
- slim OS, with all of the phone home, logging, helpware never installed
- high data rate USB drivers for all modern DAC's
- Process Lasso service, which does a great job and has an easy to use interface for core allocation, and processing priority.
- stability over time, no forced updates and incompatibility issues arising as a result
as far as vinyl and Aqua Formula-SGM I would like to add that while there is still a significant performance gap at the top, the resemblance of the Formula-SGM to vinyl is remarkable, and closer than I recall digital being to vinyl in the past. what I mean is that with the Formula-SGM the music is not flat or pinched, or lacking decay trails, or lacking nuance. what it lacks is in degrees of reality and the startle factor. vinyl can just overwhelm you with that 'jump' or 'pop' with the full texture of reality. and the digital does not get all the way there.
but if you never heard the top flight vinyl then you could be convinced the digital does it all.....because except for degrees, it does.
but if you never heard the top flight vinyl then you could be convinced the digital does it all.....because except for degrees, it does.
As it ever was, Mike
By that I mean just as a digital player seems to break the mold and appear to be on a par w analog, analog still maintains fundamental advantages, these then developed further w better tt rigs
In my case, and in the UK for most, the Linn Sondek LP12 was King, even as the so called superior format cd came along
In late 80s, Ken Ishiwata released the superlative Marantz CD12/DAC12 SE 2 box cdp, and in many respects it trounced the Linn (Kessler still contends this the best cdp ever, and I can see why)
I was ready to rob a bank or mug a millionaire to get the £3000 needed for this player, and halt my early record collecting
The Roksan TMS then came along around about that time, and took analog to the next level maintaining a lot of the neutrality that the Marantz had, but keeping the heft and verve of the Linn, Lp got re established in my head as top dog, and the world was put to rights
As the 90s went on, I upgraded from Roksan to Michell/SME/Transfiguration, this beating all digital new boys IMHO until I heard the Emm Labs CDSA SE, which again seemed to turn the world on it's head, now I had a cdp w neutrality and verve, and I veered much more to listening to CDs
Constant looking for tt to get it's mojo back, I chanced on the Trans Fi Salvation rim drive/Terminator linear air arm/Soundsmith Straingauge cart, and again analog took a big step fwd, now Im getting the speed and neutrality of best digital, w verve and heft of best analog
Digital then ups the ante w my current cdp, Eera Tentation that keeps the speed of the Emm w real analog texture
Then analog goes up a stage w the tt upgraded to magnetically suspended platter and isolating feet, and Vinnie Rossi batt psu to the Straingauge (this itself to soon be upgraded to a bespoke psu), and Lp back on top
Now...I've been exposed to the SGM and it really seems to have knocked a whole lot of walls down w it's spooky low noise flr and analog like HQP
BUT...then we put Nirvana Lp on the Kuzma tt next to it, and analog maintains its handy advantage, esp on sheer energy and substance
Quite where the Formula in conjunction takes it, probably v far twds, but analog ain't done yet
By that I mean just as a digital player seems to break the mold and appear to be on a par w analog, analog still maintains fundamental advantages, these then developed further w better tt rigs
In my case, and in the UK for most, the Linn Sondek LP12 was King, even as the so called superior format cd came along
In late 80s, Ken Ishiwata released the superlative Marantz CD12/DAC12 SE 2 box cdp, and in many respects it trounced the Linn (Kessler still contends this the best cdp ever, and I can see why)
I was ready to rob a bank or mug a millionaire to get the £3000 needed for this player, and halt my early record collecting
The Roksan TMS then came along around about that time, and took analog to the next level maintaining a lot of the neutrality that the Marantz had, but keeping the heft and verve of the Linn, Lp got re established in my head as top dog, and the world was put to rights
As the 90s went on, I upgraded from Roksan to Michell/SME/Transfiguration, this beating all digital new boys IMHO until I heard the Emm Labs CDSA SE, which again seemed to turn the world on it's head, now I had a cdp w neutrality and verve, and I veered much more to listening to CDs
Constant looking for tt to get it's mojo back, I chanced on the Trans Fi Salvation rim drive/Terminator linear air arm/Soundsmith Straingauge cart, and again analog took a big step fwd, now Im getting the speed and neutrality of best digital, w verve and heft of best analog
Digital then ups the ante w my current cdp, Eera Tentation that keeps the speed of the Emm w real analog texture
Then analog goes up a stage w the tt upgraded to magnetically suspended platter and isolating feet, and Vinnie Rossi batt psu to the Straingauge (this itself to soon be upgraded to a bespoke psu), and Lp back on top
Now...I've been exposed to the SGM and it really seems to have knocked a whole lot of walls down w it's spooky low noise flr and analog like HQP
BUT...then we put Nirvana Lp on the Kuzma tt next to it, and analog maintains its handy advantage, esp on sheer energy and substance
Quite where the Formula in conjunction takes it, probably v far twds, but analog ain't done yet
Thanks for the info and I appreciate the SGM makes the maximum use of windows 10. It having been designed from the ground up to integrate with win10.
I was just curious to hear others, if any, experience with Linux. My use of win 10 is only on a Dell laptop (SSD) and it is noisy - even running Linux on the Dell Jriver (linux) sounded better. I guess the striped down version of win10 would be better.
My fanless linux server is absolutely silent even at max vol.
Mike - do you find that digital does not match vinyl regardless of recording? You mentioned listening to some jazz and blues recently, I find that 50/60s bebop and blues from that era all sound much better on vinyl. Obviously the material is recorded in analogue so it makes sense, but music recorded digitally originally, the difference is not so clear cut. I am talking about bog standard vinyl not audiophile pressings, as a matter of interest are you listening to remastered or original pressings mostly?
I was just curious to hear others, if any, experience with Linux. My use of win 10 is only on a Dell laptop (SSD) and it is noisy - even running Linux on the Dell Jriver (linux) sounded better. I guess the striped down version of win10 would be better.
My fanless linux server is absolutely silent even at max vol.
Mike - do you find that digital does not match vinyl regardless of recording? You mentioned listening to some jazz and blues recently, I find that 50/60s bebop and blues from that era all sound much better on vinyl. Obviously the material is recorded in analogue so it makes sense, but music recorded digitally originally, the difference is not so clear cut. I am talking about bog standard vinyl not audiophile pressings, as a matter of interest are you listening to remastered or original pressings mostly?
How do you solve the problem of security in a Win 10 device connected to a network if you do not carry upgrades? I hate Windows10 update times and forced long pauses - but I understand they are essential to keep the computer safe.
Every well set up analog sounds better than digital, if the analog is not sounding good something is wrong with the set up - it is quite simple actually - does not matter what your digital poison is and what era you are in. Digital has had a lower noise floor than analog before as well, yet analog has sounded better - otherwise modded Thorens 124 would have died long ago. At the same time I do agree that digital has grown to a good enough level that one can do 80% of their listening on digital for the convenience and more music at your fingertips thing. One cannot be a critical listener every living moment. But yes, if it is a question of what's best, especially for acoustic classical...the difference is massive from a critical point of view, and not so much from a "forget the difference let's enjoy the music" point of view.
OK, we agree, considering that 99.9999% of analog are not well set up.
More seriously , the main question is that there is no agreement on what means "sounds better" - there is no absolute for this. So any comment on this aspect is just an opinion.OK, we agree, considering that 99.9999% of analog are not well set up.
Well, most of my compares - and maybe I am filtering the people who are already good analog set up guys for visits - is that I have hardly been disappointed.
Yes of course it's an opinion, I posted it so must be mine. The most exciting thing about digital is improved quality of online streaming (like Tidal, which continues to be promising), but otherwise digital is a waste of money in SQ terms, except for convenience. On the other hand, because of the lack of quality in digital one can keep spending to try and improve it to make it sound like analog - streamers, clocks, upsamplers, change cables between connecting components - and things can improve, while with analog, match it up nicely and you can get satisfaction at relatively lower costs, with the SQ far exceeding that tweaked out digital
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