GG, Nagra HD, Aqua Formula, and SGM server.
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
A question for Mike or Edward
If the Formula plays up to 384 why do you convert everything to 352.8?
Did it sound better at 352.8 than 384?
If the HQPlayer can convert to 384 did you and Edward try this
If the Formula plays up to 384 why do you convert everything to 352.8?
Did it sound better at 352.8 than 384?
If the HQPlayer can convert to 384 did you and Edward try this
Thanks - now you referred it I remember about it. I read it a lot when the Aida's were lunched - they were the first to have information on it.
At that time Livio Cucuzza, the Aida's designer was a contributor - I searched for all his posts!
At that time Livio Cucuzza, the Aida's designer was a contributor - I searched for all his posts!
a friend of mine heard "La Scala" and was not impressed.
But to be honest I never heard such DAC.
He preferred Bricasti instead.
But to be honest I never heard such DAC.
He preferred Bricasti instead.
Yesterday I sent Gian a message to check out the Aqua since it's Italian. I also told him I will try to get a Lampi across. That will give us a sufficient experience with different transports to see how much SPDIF and USB is affecting the outcome.
Also, the other thing I want to check is noise - Mike's system is ultra low noise, so anything reducing noise further helps. Gian has a CH precision system and his friend Marco has a valve based viva system, so that will be a good noise effect test
Hi Steve,
Excellent question. Not all of the filters in HQ Player can handle non integer multiple upsampling. So to allow for all of the filters in HQ Player to work going up to DXD, I chose 352 for the initial sound tests to give the maximum number of options for 16/44 material.
Sometimes there is very little audible difference between upsampling at an integer multiple or non integer, For some filters non integer won't work at all. With the Aqua Formula the sound is so good, we find there is quite a bit of flexibility in choosing filters.
On the operating system side, there are choices for processing priority which are pretty system specific. It can be some what complex, but we have been deep into this stuff on a lot of installs, and we know our way around. It's also important to let everything burn in before rigorously testing, as the optimum filter choices will change as the system noise floor drops during the running in time.
I have a Wadia S7I,that you can use also or transport,or dac
I am very happy with him
I brought my wadia in a shop to compare with Esoteric K01,but Wadia was much much better,the sound was more natural,more dynamic and the sound was out of the speaker while with Esoteric the sound was on the speaker.
We tried with Rockport Atria.
I had CH Precision C1 and i used Wadia for transport,the sound of CH was much better than the single Wadia,better in every parameter.
Then i sold CH to buy mono amp M1,but i am happy with Wadia because i listen 90% vinyl and some tape
But instead spend money for dac i prefer to change my Bergmann sindre with Bergmann Sleipner or Kronos Pro
I am very happy with him
I brought my wadia in a shop to compare with Esoteric K01,but Wadia was much much better,the sound was more natural,more dynamic and the sound was out of the speaker while with Esoteric the sound was on the speaker.
We tried with Rockport Atria.
I had CH Precision C1 and i used Wadia for transport,the sound of CH was much better than the single Wadia,better in every parameter.
Then i sold CH to buy mono amp M1,but i am happy with Wadia because i listen 90% vinyl and some tape
But instead spend money for dac i prefer to change my Bergmann sindre with Bergmann Sleipner or Kronos Pro
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
you lost me
You did try it and it doesn't work or you did but it didn't sound as good as 352.8
you lost me
You did try it and it doesn't work or you did but it didn't sound as good as 352.8
We did not try upsampling to 384 KHz, as I knew some HQ Player filters would not work with 16/44 source material upsampled to 384. During this first 2 working day meeting with the Formula, I wanted to be able to try every filter.
There is a chance that upsampling 24/96 and 192 to 384 will sound better than upsampling to 352, but I would not bet on it
Steve, keep the questions coming, I find it very helpful, and I am sure others do too. Thank You
you lost me
You did try it and it doesn't work or you did but it didn't sound as good as 352.8
what Ed assumes is that you realize that his thinking is based on the CPU doing the least math.
you have 44.1->88.2->176.4->352.8......and 48->96 ->192 -> 384....each one exactly doubles.....simple and easy. in theory better sounding.
and even you have a 44.1 clock and 48 clock.
even some dacs are optimized for one tree or the other.
switching sampling rates back and forth between the 44 tree and the 48 tree 'can' degrade things. more math.
so staying with the 352 allows the 44.1 redbook to be optimized.
I'm sure I'm over simplifying this and missing stuff.......
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I get that Mike. It's not a mystery. I merely asked if it was tried and if so what you heard. I guess there are 2 clocks in the Formula if you get to 384 so it was merely a question on my part
ok, sorry.
I did not personally change the filters and don't know which one I was listening to when Ed switched them.
Mike,
Checking my notes we were upsampling to 384 on Sunday ! Now that Roon is finding the music, we can start to explore the 352 vs 384 sonics.
I just did an install two days ago of an SGM and Aqua Formula on the East Coast. It will take this SGM about a week to come on song, and then we will start exploring 352 and 384 on this system as well.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
That's good to know Edward. Is it that the filters on HQPlayer are not as resolving at 384 than at 352
What were you hearing on Sunday when playing 384
What were you hearing on Sunday when playing 384
Steve,
All of the observations I have had a chance to make with the Formula, which is not very many as I was trying figure out why so many tracks were AWOL, has not suggested in any way that upsampling with a non integer multiple is inferior to integer multiples.
A long time ago, we had trouble with upsampling multiples and SQ differences with a SABRE DAC
The Closed Form digital filter only works with integer multiples. However Closed Form is not one of the front runner filters with the Formula
Further to the events on last Sunday. The evening before I quickly realized that Friday's settings were quite wrong for the Formula on Saturday, but I could not change them with the guests present
Sunday morning I re-did the settings completely, system sounded great, and then we re-did the rack, putting the Formula on top of the Herzan. Mike and I could not stop giving each other high fives
Giani, I think we vinylphiles all get it when you say you'd rather upgrade tt front end than dac
I'm hoping to max out my giant killer vfm tt front end (tt, arm, cart and phono for the grand sum of £16k) w the addition of active isolation
I'm hoping to max out my giant killer vfm tt front end (tt, arm, cart and phono for the grand sum of £16k) w the addition of active isolation
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