Has Magico lost its Touch?

[sbnx]

There has been very little new technology introduced into stereo speakers since the 1950's. Wilson's big innovation in their new speakers is an alnico magnet, used in audio since the 1950's.

True in the sense that it takes a vibrating membrane to produce sound. Put the membrane in a box and add a crossover and we have a speaker. This has been known forever. But there has certainly been advances in material science that reduces the distortion causes by breakup/resonances of that membrane (e.g. graphene). For box speakers we have learned how to make more rigid boxes that don't resonate (e.g Wilson's X or V material or YG/Magico Aluminum). There has also been innovation in the different ways to break-up or absorb the standing waves inside the box (e.g. B&W matrix or the tubes from the Nautilus). We have also leaned how to make better capacitors and also how to get crossover to be less intrusive. A lot of what has helped with speaker design is the computational power and packages that enable a lot of sophistication in modeling (e.g. COSMOL).

Even with all of the advances in boxes, drivers and crossovers, speakers still produce more distortion than all of the electronics in a system combined. Of course the number 1 source of distortion is the "box" that we place the speakers in otherwise known as the room.

 

[jeff1225]

True in the sense that it takes a vibrating membrane to produce sound. Put the membrane in a box and add a crossover and we have a speaker. This has been known forever. But there has certainly been advances in material science that reduces the distortion causes by breakup/resonances of that membrane (e.g. graphene). For box speakers we have learned how to make more rigid boxes that don't resonate (e.g Wilson's X or V material or YG/Magico Aluminum). There has also been innovation in the different ways to break-up or absorb the standing waves inside the box (e.g. B&W matrix or the tubes from the Nautilus). We have also leaned how to make better capacitors and also how to get crossover to be less intrusive. A lot of what has helped with speaker design is the computational power and packages that enable a lot of sophistication in modeling (e.g. COSMOL).

Even with all of the advances in boxes, drivers and crossovers, speakers still produce more distortion than all of the electronics in a system combined. Of course the number 1 source of distortion is the "box" that we place the speakers in otherwise known as the room.

Ridged boxes could have been used in the 1960's. There is no new technology used to make Magico or YG. Wilson X Material is nothing space age.

But yes, technologies from other industries have been adapted to use in speaker construction.......but do they sound better?

 

[Gregadd]

I have said it before, it would be great if the progression of audio design had one vector. Then each advancement would be a linear progression.
Instead we have many vectors of divergent
There are many innovations that accomplish similar things just in a different manner.

Designers often claim to have learned new techniques that allow them to make better products. It is new to them, but already known to others.
Then of course there is the all out cost no object product.
.

 

[sbnx]

Ridged boxes could have been used in the 1960's. There is no new technology used to make Magico or YG. Wilson X Material is nothing space age.

But yes, technologies from other industries have been adapted to use in speaker construction.......but do they sound better?

Rigid boxes probably wasn't the biggest issue with speakers in the 60's.

They new how to build airplanes in the 60's, Saying they "could have build rigid boxes" is like saying the could have built a F35 fighter jet. Just like an F35 outperforms an A4 so magico and wilson and many others outperform speakers from the 60's. By performance I mean things like frequency response extension and smoothness, driver linearity and distortion,

Do speakers today sound better? That is up to the buyer to decide. I have listened to vintage acoustic research speakers which were very highly regarded back in the day. Almost any modern speaker sounds better to my ears.

 

[bonzo75]

So that's the problem with acoustic research not with vintage.

 

[KeithR]

there are also many people who owned those famous 50s and 60s speakers and have moved on and haven't returned. they probably don't post on forums either.

as far as the OP, audiophiles change all the time. fickle beings. enjoy what you like and focus less on what others do

 

[Folsom]

I wish someone could produce today the sound of the best vintage speakers and turntables, and the looks of the best cars from the 1960s. They can do it with sailboats from the 30s.

Imagine if Magico made a cone speaker with 95+ dB efficiency, and with fewer drivers and simpler crossovers. Then we would see if the advances in driver materials and cabinet construction are meaningfully better than what has been done before.

It's more than possible. But I also think people can't get past themselves or what they think they know, so it may not happen.

 

[bonzo75]

I wish someone could produce today the sound of the best vintage speakers and turntables, and the looks of the best cars from the 1960s. They can do it with sailboats from the 30s.

Imagine if Magico made a cone speaker with 95+ dB efficiency, and with fewer drivers and simpler crossovers. Then we would see if the advances in driver materials and cabinet construction are meaningfully better than what has been done before.

Those speakers were made by large companies with much higher budgets and engineers. Not possible today with these garage operations who brand themselves.

 

[tima]

The F35 doesn’t out perform the F15 from 1970.

I thought the F35 is stealthier and can see other planes from farther away than the F16. I'm glad we have them both. Switzerland just signed a contract wth LMT to buy a bunch of F35s.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Your F35 analogy is perfect. Although it costs $150M per plane, The F35 doesn’t out perform the F15 from 1970.

. . .

This is misleading. The F-35 does not outperform the F-15 as an air superiority fighter because the F-35 was intentionally designed to be more of a multi-role aircraft -- very good at many functions but not necessarily the best at any one function -- rather than a dedicated air superiority fighter. For example, the F-35 was designed to be very competent at air-to-ground attack, a role the F-15 was not designed for originally.

The correct modern comparison to the F-15 is not the F-35 but the F-22, a dedicated air superiority fighter. And, indeed, the newer F-22 is superior to the older F-15 in the air-to-air combat role.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I wish someone could produce today . . . the looks of the best cars from the 1960s.

. . .

You can buy today from Shelby American in Nevada a newly-manufactured 427SC continuation (CSX) Cobra.

 

[bonzo75]

Shane did a Caesar with this thread topic.

 

[PeterA]

Those speakers were made by large companies with much higher budgets and engineers. Not possible today with these garage operations who brand themselves.

Do you consider Wilson and Magico garage operations? I guess compared to WE they are but how big were Vitavox and Tannoy in their hay day?

 

[bonzo75]

Do you consider Wilson and Magico garage operations? I guess compared to WE they are but how big were Vitavox and Tannoy in their hay day?

Bell labs funded WE. It was a big thing to make talkies in those days so this was the forefront of of R&D. Govt also threw money at it. Lansing heritage borrowed off them. That's Altec Jbl and tad. Tad additionally had massive investment from Pioneer.

All these, and RCA and Siemens were much much larger companies that makes Wilson and Magico seem like garage operations. These were not catering to OCD audiophiles but to cinema and other industries. The market, money, and investments were larger as part of the pie. Tannoy was used in studios and has been around for 70 years or more. It sure went downhill as managements changed and sold off.

 

[bonzo75]

Tbh when you look at the size of drivers these days... If you don't have a 4 inch voice coil and two 15 inch woofers, or at least one, you should take up a hobby like knitting. Or listen only to Patricia barber and Diana Krall. Add to that the complex crossover these days, slow moving woofers, and lack of coherence between drivers. And then box up that sound to muffle it lol.

 

[jdza]

Do you consider Wilson and Magico garage operations? I guess compared to WE they are but how big were Vitavox and Tannoy in their hay day?

Unfortunate choice of examples there: So big was Tannoy that in British English a public announcement speaker shall forever be known as a "Tannoy". A bit like a "Thermos". Likewise in the British Empire from Cape Town to Cairo, Johannesburg to Jabalpur any little or big cinema would likely be fitted with Vitavox speakers.

As for the aeroplane comparison: Wouldn't it be wonderful if the owner of Mapleshade was on WBF? Then we could all have had an earful from a true genius.

 

[microstrip]

I wish someone could produce today the sound of the best vintage speakers and turntables, and the looks of the best cars from the 1960s. They can do it with sailboats from the 30s.

Imagine if Magico made a cone speaker with 95+ dB efficiency, and with fewer drivers and simpler crossovers. Then we would see if the advances in driver materials and cabinet construction are meaningfully better than what has been done before.

Why spending so much resources and time to please the preference of just a few?

The high-end is an art, but also engineering and business and needs real customers!

IMHO the real advances show in the finished products, not in our imagination. But for simplicity I own electrostatic speakers - they only need Coulomb's law!

 

[bonzo75]

Are YOU joking? A post with no details, no argument, nothing.

And no googled extracts or Toole quotes. But at least had the emoticon.

 

[microstrip]

Are YOU joking? A post with no details, no argument, nothing. Please do better.

Only after you do better with your maths. 2021 minus 1950 is not a decade ...

Outline the new technology brought into speaker design over the last decade that had fundamentally improved the sound.

Your previous posted claim covered seven decades ...

 

[PeterA]

Why spending so much resources and time to please the preference of just a few?

The high-end is an art, but also engineering and business and needs real customers!

IMHO the real advances show in the finished products, not in our imagination. But for simplicity I own electrostatic speakers - they only need Coulomb's law!

What advances and what finished products? Can you give specific examples and not be so vague?