I remember well string sections sounded delicious in the M5. They had the proper tone, space and dynamics.
Hint of new Magico products
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I remember well string sections sounded delicious in the M5. They had the proper tone, space and dynamics.
Like the Q5/M5, I'm sure the Q1 is a more neutral sounding speaker than the Mini II. It is also more extended. However, I prefer the aesthetics of the Mini II. Also, when looking to upgrade from the Mini II to the Q1, one must consider that the market value for the Mini II was about $15K shortly after the Q1 was released new at $25K. That is a big price difference in relative terms. Today, it is about $10K versus $28K. What is interesting is that the introductory price for the Q1 was $25K while the last retail price for the Mini II was $32K. So the argument that the new speaker is both better sounding and less expensive holds for this example.
It will be very interesting to see what will happen to the Q series.
I heard the M5 and Mini II at a dealership in NYC within minutes of each other in adjoining rooms. What struck me was just how similar they sounded. The M5 had the same seamless coherency, tonal balance and dynamics, but with increased extension and scale. They are both built with the same fanatical attention to detail and I think represent excellent values on the used market today.
I have long thought about picking up used M5s for 25k- its the amplification requirement that has always made me pause. Can't have a speaker that requires more than 50-100 watts, like a DartZeel.
I think the Q3 and Q7 are the only Magicos driven by 100 watts, right? have no interest in 3-500 watt behemoths in 2014.
KeithR
I think the Q3 and Q7 are the only Magicos driven by 100 watts, right? have no interest in 3-500 watt behemoths in 2014.
KeithR
Would have happily kept my Mini II had they enough air to pressurized the room, and perhaps dug an octave/two lower.
I think it manages nicely the right balance between 'brain and beauty'- neutral enough with just the right touch of musicality.
After running full circle, I could almost see Magico slowly gravitating back towards original shape which literarily puts them on the chart.
Looking at pics of M-Project, I actually visualize stack of 5 Minis/side- much similarity in cabinet shape- Or is it me hallucinating? LoL
Anyway, interesting to see what lies ahead next for the Magico line after they are done with this M-Project.
As for power, even these little fellows are suckers for current/watts. Only since Q3 had they gotten more amp friendly.
I've seen a photograph of what might have been an early Magico prototype speaker. It looked like a floor standing Mini without the stand and about 4-5 drivers. Very cool. That could be the initial shape inspiration for the M-Project. I think the photo was on the legacy section of the Magico website, but I can't be sure.
Interesting feedback...it will be interesting to see if they bring back some of the elements which people seem to love about the Mini and M5. In any event, I was told by an FMA dealer that the Mini II was one of the speakers that would drive the FMA411 amp into protection model at high volume.
Yup, even my old 611 @250w/8ohm, encountered occasional said problem when in party mode.
But then it's already a grandpa of an amp at that stage! Yup, even my old 611 @250w/8ohm, encountered occasional said problem when in party mode.
Grandpa maybe...but only in the best sense. Surely still a competitor today in the SOTA arena from what I understand.
I think you're going to need more than a 100 watts to drive the Q3s.
From the HiFiNews review* of the Q3:
"Magico's specified 90dB sensitivity for the Q3 is a little on the hiqh side according to our measurements, which elicited a pink noise fiqure of 87.8db. Given that the Q3 is a closed box design, albeit quite a large one,this isn't entirely surprising, although its unusually low impedance helps the cause. Magico quotes a nominal impedance of 5ohm with a minimum of 2.8ohm at75HZ. We measured a minimum modulus of 2.3ohm at 76HZ, which suggests that a 3ohm nominal rating is more appropriate. Moreover, the Q3 has very large impedance phase angles at low frequencies, reaching -71' at 53HZ, making this a tough load to drive at bass frequencies. ln fact the minimum EPDR (equivalentpeak dissipation resistance) emerged as a scary 0.9ohm at 64HZ."
*http://www.bm.rs/Magico/Magico Q3 HiFi News August 2011.pdf
I'm hoping it is an all aluminum or aluminum/carbon speaker resembling the Mini II, ie, on an integrated curved stand, with all of the latest advances in driver/cabinet/crossover.
A very interesting feeling, that I also share, mostly because I like tube poer amplifiers. Why aren't many of us happy with high power amplifiers?I
I like/love mine.
but high power, zero feedback, minimal parts count in the signal path......is a tough thing to pull off.
workarounds all extract their performance trade-offs.
and there are so many excellent more modestly powered amplifiers that sound great.....the bar is high for the high powered amp to exceed to justify it's high price. it has to sound better since the speaker demands more of everything at higher loads, and be much more powerful.
more modestly powered amps and easier loads simply are a win-win.
Further proof that, sometimes, measurements mean nothing.
The darTZeel 108 plays the Q3s wonderfully. In many months, I rarely saw the lights blink, indicating possible clipping. A friend who owns McIntosh 600W monoblocs thought the Q3s played better than the darTZeel than with his monoblocs... So, power by itself means nothing, it's how you use it
Oh, and Keith's CTH-8550 will play just about any Magico, except the Q5/M5.
alexandre
i sold my big amps (ref 610t) last month because of
1. heat
2. environmental concerns/carbon neutrality
3. more complex design
4. overall boredom with speakers that are a bear to drive
5. futility of using more power when i can use less to extract sound from a box
6. preference to listen all day every day instead of listening as a special project under perfect conditions
7. musical tastes
i loved and cherished them for 6 years though.
My Dartzeel 108 also plays without any problem the Q1. No clipping at all in a fully treated room. Putting aside the Q5, I don't think that Magico speakers are so difficult to drive. Take any 100W amp with a good current capacity and you are fine.Further proof that, sometimes, measurements mean nothing.
The darTZeel 108 plays the Q3s wonderfully. In many months, I rarely saw the lights blink, indicating possible clipping. A friend who owns McIntosh 600W monoblocs thought the Q3s played better than the darTZeel than with his monoblocs... So, power by itself means nothing, it's how you use it
Oh, and Keith's CTH-8550 will play just about any Magico, except the Q5/M5.
Magico speakers are so transparent that you hear more the differences between amps. That's why people think sometimes they are difficult to match, it is more that you can bring matching with the right amp to the next level. It is much easier to hear how different amps sound, that's why result can be so different depending on which amp, cables and source you use.
30W but stable
I notice that I only employ 30Ws, being the MIPA30 by Audio Consulting, or the ZH230 by David Berning. I find them perfect. Even the shortly employed Vacuum State dpa300B did not do comparable things for me (that being rather 23W's thought ;-)
I find, properly done and used, the smaller amps do it for me.
I notice that I only employ 30Ws, being the MIPA30 by Audio Consulting, or the ZH230 by David Berning. I find them perfect. Even the shortly employed Vacuum State dpa300B did not do comparable things for me (that being rather 23W's thought ;-)
I find, properly done and used, the smaller amps do it for me.
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