How Good a CD Transport is Required to Sound Better than Streaming?

Esoteric-CD.jpg
There seems to be a fairly solid consensus (Lucasz Ficus, LL21, Al M, etc.) that CD playback or computer file playback, or perhaps both, sound better than streaming (assuming, of course, that all other variables, including the DAC, are held constant).

But I assume that one cannot assume that any device that can spin a CD necessarily will achieve better sound quality than will streaming.

So how good a CD transport does one need to achieve CD playback which sounds better than streaming? Where do the lines (rising sound quality of better transport and streaming sound quality) cross?
 
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All great transports and players mentioned above plus others...

Metronome, Kalista, Burmester, CEC, Shanling, Sony JMF Audio universal & Harmonix Reimyo CDT-777 and CDP-777 (should be included), DCS, Krell back to the KP20i, KPS25s and sc, the 505, etc. ,Wadax, SOULNOTE and so many others...Esoteric (all the way back to P-0s), TEAC, AudioNote, latestJay's CDT, Mk3 and Mk4, the list goes on and on...
 
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… from what I hear there are DACs that actually have an option to „emulate“ vinyl sound… guess that puts things into perspective and kinda redefines „audiophile“ to „equalize till it sounds pleasant“… which is actually a good thing in my opinion ✌️
 
I am in the market for a transport :). What do people think of a CD/SACD transport for pretty much RBCD playback? I read CD/SACD transports are compromised but I don’t know. Any thoughts are welcome. I have just a handful SACDs and not yet convinced they sound better than 16/44.
I love the looks of a MBL1621 transport but it is pure RBCD playbook.
 
I am in the market for a transport :). What do people think of a CD/SACD transport for pretty much RBCD playback? I read CD/SACD transports are compromised but I don’t know. Any thoughts are welcome. I have just a handful SACDs and not yet convinced they sound better than 16/44.
I love the looks of a MBL1621 transport but it is pure RBCD playbook.
I can’t speak for all SACD transports but the Esoteric Transports are regarded amongst the finest available for any format and they all are SACD capable so I’m not sure being an SACD transport handicaps it in any way. That said there are lower priced SACD transports that don’t fair as well but that is because they are simply built to a different price point.

George
 
I am in the market for a transport :). What do people think of a CD/SACD transport for pretty much RBCD playback? I read CD/SACD transports are compromised but I don’t know. Any thoughts are welcome. I have just a handful SACDs and not yet convinced they sound better than 16/44.
I love the looks of a MBL1621 transport but it is pure RBCD playbook.
i just purchased a modest transport for CD only. to be able to acquire a transport with a proper interface that would also do SACD would have been prohibitive for my budget based on the interface options with my dac that can pass a dsd signal. so i settled....for now. my dac maker will bring out an SACD transport in a year or so at an accessible price point with the proper interface, so that is on my radar if i find i enjoy silver disc spinning enough.

but there are a few reasons to not worry too much about SACD.

(1) the dsd layer in the majority of SACD's is PCM based. so unless you have a dac which favors dsd in some particular way there is no assumed performance advantage to the SACD layer. it is possible that the PCM native source is very high rez and somehow the dsd conversion might be superior to the down-sample to 16/44. but that is going to be case by case and not a sure thing.

(2) PCM dacs are now as quiet as dsd. 10+ years ago PCM dacs were noisy, so dsd did offer a more smooth, quieter performance, more space. less digital. but recent PCM dacs have mostly solved that issue, and now dsd is a bit exposed as being less refined in some ways. in any case that noise advantage is gone. not to say some still don't prefer dsd over pcm but that attraction has really faded.

(3) SACD does offer multi-channel, but very few care. and not every SACD is hybrid, with a pcm 16/44 layer, but most do. i have 1000 SACD's and about 10% are not hybrid. those non-hybrid discs were very early SACD's for the most part. you rarely see them today.
 
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I can’t speak for all SACD transports but the Esoteric Transports are regarded amongst the finest available for any format and they all are SACD capable so I’m not sure being an SACD transport handicaps it in any way. That said there are lower priced SACD transports that don’t fair as well but that is because they are simply built to a different price point.

George
I lived with Esoteric K01 and Grandioso K1 one box players some years ago and found them a bit bright and digital for my taste. I am sure the newer models and the separates are in a different league but I have yet to hear them.
 
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I lived with Esoteric K01 and Grandioso K1 one box players some years ago and found them a bit bright and digital for my taste. I am sure the newer models and the separates are in a different league but I have yet to hear them.
I don’t believe I would attribute the sound qualities you are describing to the transport but to the dac portion of the players you are mentioning. I was responding to the transport mechanism only. That said the new D1XSE’s are by far my favorite dac’s I’ve heard.

George
 
I lived with Esoteric K01 and Grandioso K1 one box players some years ago and found them a bit bright and digital for my taste. I am sure the newer models and the separates are in a different league but I have yet to hear them.
the modest transport i bought is the TEAC VRDS-701T (budget version of the Esoteric's), and it was quite digital sounding even into my 'uber' dac, until i added my Esoteric clock to it. which completely tamed it. of course, my clock costs x10 the retail of the transport + cost of the clock 50 cable. but just keep that in mind. some interfaces do help with/matter with that digital signature too. you can always consider a CD transport with a pleasing character/coloration such as the belt driven CEC's.
 
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I am in the market for a transport :). What do people think of a CD/SACD transport for pretty much RBCD playback? I read CD/SACD transports are compromised but I don’t know. Any thoughts are welcome. I have just a handful SACDs and not yet convinced they sound better than 16/44.
I love the looks of a MBL1621 transport but it is pure RBCD playbook.
I know MBL made a CD/SACD transport earlier, but recommended their CD drive for CD only playback. They use a modified Phillips Pro drive.
 
the modest transport i bought is the TEAC VRDS-701T (budget version of the Esoteric's), and it was quite digital sounding even into my 'uber' dac, until i added my Esoteric clock to it. which completely tamed it. of course, my clock costs x10 the retail of the transport + cost of the clock 50 cable. but just keep that in mind. some interfaces do help with/matter with that digital signature too. you can always consider a CD transport with a pleasing character/coloration such as the belt driven CEC's.
I am not a techie and it is interesting to read that an external clock can improve the sound of a CD transport. Most CD transports or players have no inputs for external clocks though.
 
I am not a techie and it is interesting to read that an external clock can improve the sound of a CD transport. Most CD transports or players have no inputs for external clocks though.

Usually a reclocker is between CD transport and DAC. Instead of directly connecting to the DAC, you use the same digital output to connect to the reclocker, which then connects to the DAC.

Many reclockers, such as my Mutec reclocker, have an input for an external clock as well. In fact, my next planned upgrade will be a 10 MHz clock for my reclocker.
 
i just purchased a modest transport for CD only. to be able to acquire a transport with a proper interface that would also do SACD would have been prohibitive for my budget based on the interface options with my dac that can pass a dsd signal. so i settled....for now. my dac maker will bring out an SACD transport in a year or so at an accessible price point with the proper interface, so that is on my radar if i find i enjoy silver disc spinning enough.

but there are a few reasons to not worry too much about SACD.

(1) the dsd layer in the majority of SACD's is PCM based. so unless you have a dac which favors dsd in some particular way there is no assumed performance advantage to the SACD layer. it is possible that the PCM native source is very high rez and somehow the dsd conversion might be superior to the down-sample to 16/44. but that is going to be case by case and not a sure thing.

(2) PCM dacs are now as quiet as dsd. 10+ years ago PCM dacs were noisy, so dsd did offer a more smooth, quieter performance, more space. less digital. but recent PCM dacs have mostly solved that issue, and now dsd is a bit exposed as being less refined in some ways. in any case that noise advantage is gone. not to say some still don't prefer dsd over pcm but that attraction has really faded.

(3) SACD does offer multi-channel, but very few care. and not every SACD is hybrid, with a pcm 16/44 layer, but most do. i have 1000 SACD's and about 10% are not hybrid. those non-hybrid discs were very early SACD's for the most part. you rarely see them today.
Interesting and well reasoned comments. As an Esoteric K-01XD owner, I have been debating with myself going back to a relatively inexpensive CD only transport (e.g., Jay's)... giving a wide variety of DACs to consider. My hesitancy is that I don't want forego the wonderful sound of some (not a lot) classical SACDs I enjoy.
 
I would hold onto that K-01XD. I think they have an upgrade available? If you have already paid the price and enjoy the sound.

I still use my Ayre C5xe MP. Almost 20 years old. Still sounds good and I have a backup transport. I do not dabble in the lates dac’s. If your music sounds good and you are engaged you have won.
 
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I would hold onto that K-01XD. I think they have an upgrade available? If you have already paid the price and enjoy the sound.

I still use my Ayre C5xe MP. Almost 20 years old. Still sounds good and I have a backup transport. I do not dabble in the lates dac’s. If your music sounds good and you are engaged you have won.
Continuing with the K-01XD (SE) is my default choice for now. The Master Sound Discrete DAC inside these units is excellent. But there will eventually come a time when I will want to separate the transport from the DAC.
 
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I am in the market for a transport :). What do people think of a CD/SACD transport for pretty much RBCD playback? I read CD/SACD transports are compromised but I don’t know. Any thoughts are welcome. I have just a handful SACDs and not yet convinced they sound better than 16/44.
I love the looks of a MBL1621 transport but it is pure RBCD playbook.
I personally is a diehard-fans of sacd, both hybrid version and single-layer versions.

There are still some good sacd transports in the market which are not as expensive as the top CH Precision, dCS & or Esoteric ...etc, yet offering very musical sound & enjoyment.

Pls check out the PS Audio SACD Transport which is solidly built.

If your budget allows, please check the Metronome AQWO series and of course the Accuphases.
 
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I personally is a diehard-fans of sacd, both hybrid version and single-layer versions.

There are still some good sacd transports in the market which are not as expensive as the top CH Precision, dCS & or Esoteric ...etc, yet offering very musical sound & enjoyment.

Pls check out the PS Audio SACD Transport which is solidly built.

If your budget allows, please check the Metronome AQWO series and of course the Accuphases.
Thanks. I will keep an open mind. I have maybe only 10 SACDs and I find those remastered from old recordings (PCM?) do not sound good to me. DSD downloads from Hi-Res sites are also mediocre. Tipped up treble and lean mids.
I have a few SACDs on Reference Recordings label which I read were recorded in DSD (?) and they are better. What’s your impression so far with SACD?
 
SACD has been in the market for decades.
They are still very popular in Hong Kong, Mainland China, SE Asia & of course Japan.

It won't be so if their sonic quality is lousy.
There can be so many confounding factors!

Please explore again and may be to arrange home-loan/trail with your local dealers.
It will be fun!

BTW pls get ready a few good/contemporarily produced sacd for the comparison.

Good hunting!
 
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Where SACD shines brightest in both variety and SQ is classical music. Try Beethoven Piano Concertos 4 & 5, Yevgeny Sudbin, Minnesota Orchestra, Osmo Vanska on BIS; Handle Organ Concertos, Academy of Ancient Music, Richard Egarr on harmonia mundi; Tchaikovsky Symphony Nos 4-6, Russian National Orchestra, Mikhail Platenv on PentaTone; jazz - Patricia Barber, Cafe Blue UN-mastered on Premonition Records. These examples will not disappoint.
 
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Just sharing that i will be auditioning this week three CD transports: Jay's Audio CD-T 3 MKIII ($5K), Accustic Arts Drive IV ($22K), and MBL 1621A ($33K). All three are well built top loaders from what i read. Jay's Audio and MBL use Philips' CDPro2 mechanism, while Accustic Arts use the newer CDPro8 mechanism from another company..
They will be in different setups so it will not be apple to apple comparisons but i will share what i hear..
 

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