How Good a CD Transport is Required to Sound Better than Streaming?

Esoteric-CD.jpg
There seems to be a fairly solid consensus (Lucasz Ficus, LL21, Al M, etc.) that CD playback or computer file playback, or perhaps both, sound better than streaming (assuming, of course, that all other variables, including the DAC, are held constant).

But I assume that one cannot assume that any device that can spin a CD necessarily will achieve better sound quality than will streaming.

So how good a CD transport does one need to achieve CD playback which sounds better than streaming? Where do the lines (rising sound quality of better transport and streaming sound quality) cross?
 
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I found this to be very interesting!

I listened to the audio samples using my Sennheiser HD540 Reference Gold headphones via my MacBookPro laptop.
I could faintly hear the differences between the audio samples and was able to guess correctly, but like he said, the differences were very minuscule to my ears via my headphones.

So I begin to wonder if something happens when people rip the audio to be able to be shared via youtube that everything gets homologized?

But then the creator basically said (I am paraphrasing here) that when listening in his sweet spot, that although there were audio differences between using the roughly $40 transport and the $11,000 Ayon, that those audio differences were certainly quite small and certainly not worth the $11,000 outlay and actually felt embarrassed and almost apologetic about his preconceived bias.

He then went on to say that when comparing the $40 player to the $11,000 Ayon player utilizing their own internal dacs, not using an external dac, that the differences were then noticeably larger when listening in the sweet spot. But still, after this experiment that he is considering selling the expensive Ayon and getting something much less expensive.

So, this is all for me to wonder about..... I am just now, after roughly 50 years of vinyl dedication, dipping my toes into the digital side of things. I have just recently ordered a new LTA AERO Dac. To start out with, I will be using my vintage Rotel 955AX multibit cd player as the transport via its coax digital output. I have been contemplating getting a dedicated CD transport along the likes of a Jay's Audio or CEC TL-2N dual belt drive. But now I wonder if after seeing the above youtube video, if spending another $2500 to $5000 or so on a dedicated transport is even needed or worthwhile?

Would be interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on this. As I had mentioned... digital is completely new to me and I have a lot to learn!

Best wishes to you all!
Don
 
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I always focused on the DAC versus the transport until I had purchased a Mojo Audio EVO . Ben from Mojo asked me what transport I was using and I told him a Cambridge CXC. He responded that the quality of the transport used either allows through or holds back the performance of a DAC. I decided to purchase a SimAudio 260 DT and the SQ improvement was immediately noticeable versus the CXC. The SQ further improved when I reached out to SimAudio and asked if f any of the outputs were optimized. The response was AES/EBU, and switching to that from the SPDIF took the SQ improvement even further. Net net, I wouldn't discount the importance of the transport, and in understanding their optimization
 
The best transport is in the same box as the CD player, that is, a stand-alone CD player.
CD transports vary wildly with regards to sound quality; and they impact the sound of a DAC when used together.
A top-notch transport (internal or external) should house a robust and performant optical pickup, quality casework, and be well damped internally to prevent incidental errors in land and pit (0's and 1s) the accuracy is all over the place. How closely the grooves are followed impacts dynamic passages in recorded music and bass extension to a large extent. A bad transport may also add noise, which might cause a track that is typically bright to sound warmer.

Want to get around this? use multi-layer glass fiber Toslink cables if you have the option on your CD player. Connect it to an Android phone via DSD TECH adapter with a KONDOR BLUE type C cable. Now, you should get the same sound quality, or very close.

I'm not a fan of streaming because I prefer to have physical media. For example, all of my music is stored on an external nVME drive, Android phone, and computer.
 
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Thank you for your reply!

It is great to hear your thoughts, especially between the Jay's CDT3 and the CDT2 transports. What you report hearing between the two, mirrors what I believe I have read about the designer saying... that the CDM4 as having a touch more musicality than the CD-PRO2LF, while also being more reliable, more precise and more musical.

When you say the CDT2 has a better flow and more analog sounding... those are attributes that resonate with me!

I'm curious... when comparing the two Jay's transports...
1. Did they have the upsampling to 176.4Khz engaged?
2. If so, could you hear much of a difference between the transport at 44.1Khz vs the 176.4Khz?
3. Which Dac and Speakers were they using?

I truly appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experiences with us!

Best wishes,
Don
Hi Don, I tried out the upsampling feature on each model. It was a brief comparison so I can’t be sure.. up sampling sounded a touch richer compared to 16/44, to my surprise honestly, but if it was true, it was a subtle difference and no way as significant compared to that between the two models. The DAC was a Denafrips Venus II.
 
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I found this to be very interesting!

I listened to the audio samples using my Sennheiser HD540 Reference Gold headphones via my MacBookPro laptop.
I could faintly hear the differences between the audio samples and was able to guess correctly, but like he said, the differences were very minuscule to my ears via my headphones.

So I begin to wonder if something happens when people rip the audio to be able to be shared via youtube that everything gets homologized?

But then the creator basically said (I am paraphrasing here) that when listening in his sweet spot, that although there were audio differences between using the roughly $40 transport and the $11,000 Ayon, that those audio differences were certainly quite small and certainly not worth the $11,000 outlay and actually felt embarrassed and almost apologetic about his preconceived bias.

He then went on to say that when comparing the $40 player to the $11,000 Ayon player utilizing their own internal dacs, not using an external dac, that the differences were then noticeably larger when listening in the sweet spot. But still, after this experiment that he is considering selling the expensive Ayon and getting something much less expensive.

So, this is all for me to wonder about..... I am just now, after roughly 50 years of vinyl dedication, dipping my toes into the digital side of things. I have just recently ordered a new LTA AERO Dac. To start out with, I will be using my vintage Rotel 955AX multibit cd player as the transport via its coax digital output. I have been contemplating getting a dedicated CD transport along the likes of a Jay's Audio or CEC TL-2N dual belt drive. But now I wonder if after seeing the above youtube video, if spending another $2500 to $5000 or so on a dedicated transport is even needed or worthwhile?

Would be interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on this. As I had mentioned... digital is completely new to me and I have a lot to learn!

Best wishes to you all!
Don
Seems like it's DAC dependent so you will just have to try a transport on a sale or return basis. Also try ripping a CD, to see if you prefer file playback. Lastly you could try a reclocker between your Rotel and DAC.
 
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I want to post this here despite it being about a tweak because it raises the level of SQ from top loading transports to a degree that I think vaults CD transport well beyond any streaming system I have heard. It does so in qualitative ways- smooth dynamic changes, density, increaeses in emotional communication apparent lowered distortion, continuousness of soundstage even when it's not real ( multitracked pop) that go beyond the effects of a better amp or cable in my experience ( more on the level of a powerful room acoustics upgrade). It seems unlikely anyone reading the tweak section would happen to use a top loading CD transport.

And it is....the Stein carbon fiber CD mat. I found out the hard way- I had been using one for 2 years and of course came to take it for granted, until it got inadvertently disposed of in a misguided fit of house cleaning. I ordered one promptly but was sent a lower level version accidentally - it DID improve the sound a bit but no more than my old mats ( name escapes me). Got the correct Carbon mat after a week and WOW! It's a revelation.

So besides reccomending it I want to say that this discussion is incomplete sans the Stein mat- there is a LOT more in these discs than one might have guessed.
 
I want to post this here despite it being about a tweak because it raises the level of SQ from top loading transports to a degree that I think vaults CD transport well beyond any streaming system I have heard. It does so in qualitative ways- smooth dynamic changes, density, increaeses in emotional communication apparent lowered distortion, continuousness of soundstage even when it's not real ( multitracked pop) that go beyond the effects of a better amp or cable in my experience ( more on the level of a powerful room acoustics upgrade). It seems unlikely anyone reading the tweak section would happen to use a top loading CD transport.

And it is....the Stein carbon fiber CD mat. I found out the hard way- I had been using one for 2 years and of course came to take it for granted, until it got inadvertently disposed of in a misguided fit of house cleaning. I ordered one promptly but was sent a lower level version accidentally - it DID improve the sound a bit but no more than my old mats ( name escapes me). Got the correct Carbon mat after a week and WOW! It's a revelation.

So besides reccomending it I want to say that this discussion is incomplete sans the Stein mat- there is a LOT more in these discs than one might have guessed.
Any top level tweak from Steinmusic is incredibly good IME/IMHO. I used Marigo Labs mat for Cd when I was listening Cds. It was also very good.
 
Any top level tweak from Steinmusic is incredibly good IME/IMHO. I used Marigo Labs mat for Cd when I was listening Cds. It was also very good.
Right, yes, I used to use Marigo- could not remember the name- this is in another league entirely. What else from Stein can you recommend ?
 
I don't think any of those Mats work on the Naim players(CD555 etc ) due to the magnetic centre puck.
I use the Audiodeske Trimmer and the Kiuichi MY-T Tuning Sheets and occasional spray of Ultra-Bit Platinum-Plus Digital Goop:rolleyes:.
Good Listening,
BruceD
 
I don't think any of those Mats work on the Naim players(CD555 etc ) due to the magnetic centre puck.
No, they all do work because almost all cd players have a magnetic center puck not just Naim 555. Only a handful of outliers like CEC don’t have magnetic clamping. Of course careful placement is important especially with tray mechanisms, top loaders are much easier. I used to use Marigo Labs mat successfully with my Bow ZZ Eight long time ago.

I use the Audiodeske Trimmer
You simply killed those discs by cutting the edge. All Cds are sprayed with varnish on top of reflective aluminium layer to prevent corrosion. Varnish covers whole reflective area and half of the edge in order to make it airtight. Corrosion of reflective layer is just a matter of time when you kill that seal. Back in the day some of my friends used to use Audiodesk Trimmer and I’ve seen hundreds of trimmed Cds, couple of them started to corrode already.
 
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Cool--put Jadis players in the non magnetic list also--interesting on the CD's well I never!-- so dear old Reiner sold us all a pup with his
device. Next time I run into him I'll make point of mentioning your conclusion we are murderers .:eek:!

Mean while I have hundreds of CDs Trimmed and frankly haven't noticed any degradation in the appearance nor sonics, but I promise to let you know when the Rot you mention sets in.

Interestingly the only time I've had the Aluminium surface peel of/bits flaking /etc was when conned into using those cursed AudioQuest stick on labels ages ago--the SOB's glue after time, became semi permanent and removing same yanked off some of the label with it:mad:

BruceD
 
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A good mat definitely makes a difference in CD Playback. I have a CEC TL-5 transport, and use a one-off carbon fiber mat that my friend Krissy from Heartsound Audio added her special sauce to.

Other old school CD tweaks I use are; green paint around the edges, Shineola, and demagnetization with an old Radio Shack device (originally designed for erasing video tapes). They all make a difference, and are cumulative.
 
I tried a search and didn’t come up with much.

Please gentlemen, I’m a digital neophyte, so be easy on me. :)

Any conversation or recommendations for what I need to understand about a cable connection between say a Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC and a Jay’s CDT3-MK3 transport? Steve Guttenberg in his YouTube review of this DAC suggested that he hooked up this transport with an i2s connection, no particular brand mentioned. Any thoughts to consider? Either a direct recommendation for a specific product or a place to go learn how all these alien (to me) connections function?
 
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Any thoughts to consider? Either a direct recommendation for a specific product or a place to go learn how all these alien (to me) connections function?
Don't overthink this. I have the top Esoteric Grandioso CD/SACD transport. It doesn't matter what digital connection you use. ESLink (HDMI cable), AES/EBU, RCA they all sound the same. Any differences are so minute as to be inconsequential compared to other things you can change to improve the sound.
 
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Don't overthink this. I have the top Esoteric Grandioso CD/SACD transport. It doesn't matter what digital connection you use. ESLink (HDMI cable), AES/EBU, RCA they all sound the same. Any differences are so minute as to be inconsequential compared to other things you can change to improve the sound.
Thank you. I’m happy to hear that. Is an audiophile level cable in HDMI audibly better? In say noise rejection?
 
Don't overthink this. I have the top Esoteric Grandioso CD/SACD transport. It doesn't matter what digital connection you use. ESLink (HDMI cable), AES/EBU, RCA they all sound the same. Any differences are so minute as to be inconsequential compared to other things you can change to improve the sound

What you experience with the Esoteric may not necessarily translate to every transport's outputs. It's not the case with the SimAudio I have its AES/EBU connection is optimized. I have read that Project's is as well; there may well be other transports that are likewise
@DetroitVinylRob I'd suggest that you reach out to Jay's to inquire directly about their transports outputs to determine if there are audible SQ differences between the units outputs
 
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Is an audiophile level cable in HDMI audibly better? In say noise rejection?
Digital cables aren't susceptible to noise. If you're worried about noise, that comes in on power cables. Whilst digital cables can sound different, any differences are subtle at best. But not to the extent of one sounding better than another. They just sound different. You will get more of a difference in sound with speakers being 5-10 degrees out of optimal alignment than with any audiophile digital cable compared to a budget cable. Certainly that is my experience with the top Esoteric gear.
 
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What you experience with the Esoteric may not necessarily translate to every transport's outputs. It's not the case with the SimAudio I have its AES/EBU connection is optimized. I have read that Project's is as well; there may well be other transports that are likewise
@DetroitVinylRob I'd suggest that you reach out to Jay's to inquire directly about their transports outputs to determine if there are audible SQ differences between the units outputs
I have contacted Mola Mola, will also as Jay’s. Thank you.
 
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