How Good a CD Transport is Required to Sound Better than Streaming?

Esoteric-CD.jpg
There seems to be a fairly solid consensus (Lucasz Ficus, LL21, Al M, etc.) that CD playback or computer file playback, or perhaps both, sound better than streaming (assuming, of course, that all other variables, including the DAC, are held constant).

But I assume that one cannot assume that any device that can spin a CD necessarily will achieve better sound quality than will streaming.

So how good a CD transport does one need to achieve CD playback which sounds better than streaming? Where do the lines (rising sound quality of better transport and streaming sound quality) cross?
 
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Just sharing that i will be auditioning this week three CD transports: Jay's Audio CD-T 3 MKIII ($5K), Accustic Arts Drive IV ($22K), and MBL 1621A ($33K). All three are well built top loaders from what i read. Jay's Audio and MBL use Philips' CDPro2 mechanism, while Accustic Arts use the newer CDPro8 mechanism from another company..
They will be in different setups so it will not be apple to apple comparisons but i will share what i hear..

How are you going to distinguish what the transport brings to the table in these auditions? And, how are you going to evaluate them against one another since there are three completely different setups?
 
How are you going to distinguish what the transport brings to the table in these auditions? And, how are you going to evaluate them against one another since there are three completely different setups?
The only thing common is I bring my CDs. Other than that I don’t have an answer :). Any suggestions?
Of course I hope Jay’s Audio will perform as well as the other two .. it would be great for my pocket :)
 
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The only thing common is I bring my CDs. Other than that I don’t have an answer :). Any suggestions?
Of course I hope Jay’s Audio will perform as well as the other two .. it would be great for my pocket :)

Do you presently have a cd transport or cd players that can be used as a transport that you can bring along and swap in for a compare at least against each individual one? Or does whoever you are auditioning with have other transports for comparisons? One other thing, those comparisons can be made I'd suggest doing two comparisons one using the same transport output type connection , the other using the outputs connection type that the specific transport may be optimized for.

Otherwise, nope no help. I'm pulling for your pocketbook :). Good luck, I will be interested in your assessments
 
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Trying them at home in your system isn’t an option? That would be a great way to corroborate your findings before a purchase, especially a costly one.
At least trying to match them together in the same system/room to have a better comparison.

Otherwise I guess your final decision would be compromised by so many variables. Anyway good luck and keep us informed, I’m curious.
 
Just sharing that i will be auditioning this week three CD transports: Jay's Audio CD-T 3 MKIII ($5K), Accustic Arts Drive IV ($22K), and MBL 1621A ($33K). All three are well built top loaders from what i read. Jay's Audio and MBL use Philips' CDPro2 mechanism, while Accustic Arts use the newer CDPro8 mechanism from another company..
They will be in different setups so it will not be apple to apple comparisons but i will share what i hear..
 
Technology in digital playback rapidly advances every year.

A 10 year old transport/DAC/one box player is a dinosaur by that time if not sooner. By that time the resale value is only about 25% or less of the original price.
Another factor is that laser pickups for older units become scarce and often unobtainable after about 10-15 years on average.

I recently just upgraded my one box CD player for a better sounding one that incorporates newer technology. This is my 3rd CD player since 2006 which is the year that I purchased my first CD player. This is going to be my last CD player. I'll keep it until repairs become impossible and parts unobtainable...

After that I'll go to digital downloads. I'm mainly into records and tape anyway but some music music isn't available in LP format, especially in early period classical music. I've about 1000 CD's and only about 8 or 9 CD/SACD's plus 1 XRCD.

Just my opinions.
 
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so far in three days of CD only listening, to all sorts of music, it's going in the opposite direction. the ease and liquid naturalness to the sound has only become more evident. my strong hunch, which i've already voiced on the other thread about my system changes and Ron's system thread, is that CD sound, any CD sound, is mostly about the clock and timing. i'm no techie as to why, but if there is any reputation of Esoteric digital for being fatiguing, it's not the transport which is the source. and not this clock. as there is zero feeling of that so far.

i've not streamed since i got the TEAC, or done any vinyl or tape. in the next few days i will get my Durand Tosca tone arm back from being upgraded to the Limited Edition level. Joel Durand will be here for that and i'll have him listen to his own CD and see what he says. it's hair shirt stuff which will test the naturalness of any digital playback.

it's fair to be skeptical. i can tell you i was not only skeptical, i was disappointed with my decision with little expectations for the clock until i heard what it did, and now continue to hear it.
i just got my Sept 24' issue of Stereophile, and the first thing i see is a Herb Reichert review of my TEAC VRDS-701T transport. it's a positive review. and no, he does not use the clock input (it's not even mentioned). his dacs of choice are the dCS Lina and the Holoaudio Spring 3 KTE.

Here is a little peak….
IMG_1547.jpeg
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… I ended this debate by buying a Metronome CD Transport - sounds better than the streamed/ripped/downloaded music and brought the experience of playing CDs back… I actually went to the basement and starting setting up CD shelves again… why try making streaming sound as good as a CDT when you can just easily buy a decent CDT and be happy? Also I love collecting physical MEDIA - it`s a central part of enjoying the music to me.

Keeping it simple

1. Play vinyl when available
2. Play CD if vinyl is not available
3. Play stream/download when CD is not available

Can`t beat the logic ;-)

Cheers,
Which Metronome CD Transport did you end up buying?
I'm currently in the market for a CD Transport, myself.

Best wishes,
Don
 
Where SACD shines brightest in both variety and SQ is classical music. Try Beethoven Piano Concertos 4 & 5, Yevgeny Sudbin, Minnesota Orchestra, Osmo Vanska on BIS; Handle Organ Concertos, Academy of Ancient Music, Richard Egarr on harmonia mundi; Tchaikovsky Symphony Nos 4-6, Russian National Orchestra, Mikhail Platenv on PentaTone; jazz - Patricia Barber, Cafe Blue UN-mastered on Premonition Records. These examples will not disappoint.
SACD also shines on Jazz and other genres in addition to classical...
 
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I can’t speak for all SACD transports but the Esoteric Transports are regarded amongst the finest available for any format and they all are SACD capable so I’m not sure being an SACD transport handicaps it in any way. That said there are lower priced SACD transports that don’t fair as well but that is because they are simply built to a different price point.

George
Absolutely agreed,....the mention of CD/SACD being compromised goes back 10 or more years when compromised generally meant that they sounded better with one of the other format to reviewers and owners. For example for Esoteric (opinion), for all lines up to and including the P-02/D-02 and prior SACD playback was reported as being better than the CD playback (which was also highly regarded). From the P-02X/D-02X, Grandioso P1/D1 and now the P1X/D1X and Grandioso K1X and K-01XD (plus the new SE upgrades as well) forward, I dare say the CD and SACD playback are equivalently excellent. It all comes down to the quality and provenance of the disc that goes in the drawer when you hit play.
 
I use an Oppo 205D. It’s a stunning universal player. I know measurements mean didly squat on WBF, but it was ranked among the top few on audio review.con for DAC linearity. It’s way way more reliable at reading anything I throw at it from my 6000+ SACD/CD/DVD/DAD library than anything else I’ve owned over 40+ years. I had the good sense a few years ago to buy two of these. They are no longer made. Sad. I’ve owned pretty much every major high end brand of SACD players including Esoteric. If you want a fuss free player, pony up for the Oppo. They’re more expensive now and getting more so.
 
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I use an Oppo 205D. It’s a stunning universal player. I know measurements mean didly squat on WBF, but it was ranked among the top few on audio review.con for DAC linearity. It’s way way more reliable at reading anything I throw at it from my 6000+ SACD/CD/DVD/DAD library than anything else I’ve owned over 40+ years. I had the good sense a few years ago to buy two of these. They are no longer made. Sad. I’ve owned pretty much every major high end brand of SACD players including Esoteric. If you want a fuss free player, pony up for the Oppo. They’re more expensive now and getting more so.
I had an Oppo 105D player for home theatre and I never got around to compare its transport sound quality to my other CD and SACd players. Would be curious.
 
I had an Oppo 105D player for home theatre and I never got around to compare its transport sound quality to my other CD and SACd players. Would be curious.
I have one i use for my television setup, it is on 10 hours a day, that thing just keeps on going. Sometimes i leave it on days at a time on repeat, when something else needs a signal for breaking in. The drive section is not particularly good, all my top -loaders have better sounding drives, i even used the Oppos dac with my Kps 25sc one of the many times the Krell was broken, sounded much better than with its own drive. :)
 
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Just sharing that i will be auditioning this week three CD transports: Jay's Audio CD-T 3 MKIII ($5K), Accustic Arts Drive IV ($22K), and MBL 1621A ($33K). All three are well built top loaders from what i read. Jay's Audio and MBL use Philips' CDPro2 mechanism, while Accustic Arts use the newer CDPro8 mechanism from another company..
They will be in different setups so it will not be apple to apple comparisons but i will share what i hear..
Hi, just wondering if you had a chance to compare the three CD transports yet and what your thoughts of each were?
Best wishes,
Don
 
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i just got my Sept 24' issue of Stereophile, and the first thing i see is a Herb Reichert review of my TEAC VRDS-701T transport. it's a positive review. and no, he does not use the clock input (it's not even mentioned). his dacs of choice are the dCS Lina and the Holoaudio Spring 3 KTE.

Here is a little peak….
View attachment 134557
View attachment 134558
I've always enjoyed Herb's writings, but I almost have to question either his hearing or his motives if he gave this transport a very positive review after reading what you had just recently posted....

Jul 2, 2024

"i've listened to this new TEAC transport now most of the afternoon. initially it was brittle sounding, got a little better, but was very 'digital', even through the Wadax Reference dac with the upgraded Akasa DC cables. my plan was to listen for awhile before i tried the clock, but this was not looking good."

I got the distinct impression that your new Teac transport was basically almost unlistenable unless used with the expensive clock and cables (which now in my mind removes this dac from the somewhat affordable transport option category) as you had mentioned below...

"the modest transport i bought is the TEAC VRDS-701T (budget version of the Esoteric's), and it was quite digital sounding even into my 'uber' dac, until i added my Esoteric clock to it. which completely tamed it. of course, my clock costs x10 the retail of the transport + cost of the clock 50 cable."

Or, could is it possible that you didn't give the Teac transport enough time to fully break in before inserting the expensive clock/cables? Do you think it is possible that this would have made any difference with the sonic outcome?

I'm just really honestly very curious as I am just entering the digital side of things right now. I don't have the expendable income to get into 6 figure products and digital will be only 20% of my listening time as I thoroughly enjoy my minty vinyl collection.

In any case I have just bought the LTA Aero Dac and am considering a dedicated CD transport to mate with it. I am considering the Jay's Audio CDT3 Mk3; the CEC TL-2N dual belt drive transport (both of which can upsample from 44.1K up to 176.4K) and am now curious to learn more about this Teac transport.

I've always appreciated your postings as it seems like you tend to go in with no preconceived notions and you trust what hear with your ears over what spec's on a piece of paper say.

Thank you and best wishes to you,
Don
 
Hi, just wondering if you had a chance to compare the thre CD transports yet and what your thoughts of each were?
Best wishes,
Don
Hi. I auditioned Jay’s CDT3 and CDT2 side by side in a system (Kinki Audio electronics) which I wasn’t familiar with. In that system CDT3 sounded highly resolute. I prefer the much cheaper CDT2 which while less resolving had a better flow and more analog sounding. The MBL sounded very complete and great all rounder kind of sound.. even sweet sounding..it was in an all MBL setup . Given the size and styling, I feel the MBL might look out of place in a non-MBL system. I haven’t got around to hear the Accustic Arts or the Vitus transport. I may also look up a good SACD transport for its added ability to play the SACD layer.
 

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Hi. I auditioned Jay’s CDT3 and CDT2 side by side in a system (Kinki Audio electronics) which I wasn’t familiar with. In that system CDT3 sounded highly resolute. I prefer the much cheaper CDT2 which while less resolving had a better flow and more analog sounding. The MBL sounded very complete and great all rounder kind of sound.. even sweet sounding..it was in an all MBL setup . Given the size and styling, I feel the MBL might look out of place in a non-MBL system. I haven’t got around to hear the Accustic Arts or the Vitus transport. I may also look up a good SACD transport for its added ability to play the SACD layer.
 

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I've always enjoyed Herb's writings, but I almost have to question either his hearing or his motives if he gave this transport a very positive review after reading what you had just recently posted....

Jul 2, 2024

"i've listened to this new TEAC transport now most of the afternoon. initially it was brittle sounding, got a little better, but was very 'digital', even through the Wadax Reference dac with the upgraded Akasa DC cables. my plan was to listen for awhile before i tried the clock, but this was not looking good."

I got the distinct impression that your new Teac transport was basically almost unlistenable unless used with the expensive clock and cables (which now in my mind removes this dac from the somewhat affordable transport option category) as you had mentioned below...

"the modest transport i bought is the TEAC VRDS-701T (budget version of the Esoteric's), and it was quite digital sounding even into my 'uber' dac, until i added my Esoteric clock to it. which completely tamed it. of course, my clock costs x10 the retail of the transport + cost of the clock 50 cable."

Or, could is it possible that you didn't give the Teac transport enough time to fully break in before inserting the expensive clock/cables? Do you think it is possible that this would have made any difference with the sonic outcome?

I'm just really honestly very curious as I am just entering the digital side of things right now. I don't have the expendable income to get into 6 figure products and digital will be only 20% of my listening time as I thoroughly enjoy my minty vinyl collection.

In any case I have just bought the LTA Aero Dac and am considering a dedicated CD transport to mate with it. I am considering the Jay's Audio CDT3 Mk3; the CEC TL-2N dual belt drive transport (both of which can upsample from 44.1K up to 176.4K) and am now curious to learn more about this Teac transport.

I've always appreciated your postings as it seems like you tend to go in with no preconceived notions and you trust what hear with your ears over what spec's on a piece of paper say.

Thank you and best wishes to you,
Don
hi Don,

thank you for the kind words. i agree that this story is not finished for me and this TEAC transport.

(1) i need to revisit the question of my perception that it's sound was too 'digital' without the clock. i did put some hours on it but likely i need to play it more first. not sure i had enough time on it to have played through the break in period yet and lately i've been on to other important things such as organizing a large Lp collection i bought a few years ago which is a big project i'm now deep into. so i need to follow up with that.

and....(2) in Herb's review he does explain that he did get a refinement boost when he engaged the Holodeck Spring 3 dac's Phase-Lock Loop (PLL) with the S/PDIF output and it did "cause the sound to be sweeter, more supple, less forward, less mechanical, and more analog". so maybe that goes a ways to resolve our differences in perception. at least to some degree. more than one way to optimize the interface, the clock simply one of them.

ultimately it comes down to references for digital performance, and mine is pretty high. i'm still happy with what i'm hearing from this transport with my clock connected. btw, since i was having to move my Shunyata Sigma v2 Clock 50 cable back and forth between my Esoteric T1 tt and the transport i decided to buy another clock cable so i did not have to do that, and i splurged and got the next higher level Shunyata, the Omega Clock 50 cable, and darn if it was not audible as slightly more musical....greater textures and sexiness....better bass with the TEAC. very small differences but musically significant. it also boosted the Esoteric T1 when i tried it there, so as that is my main source i use more, that is where it has stayed.....but interesting that the TEAC was transparent enough to reveal that cable difference.

this modest TEAC is really a nice piece i think.

best regards,

Mike
 
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Hi. I auditioned Jay’s CDT3 and CDT2 side by side in a system (Kinki Audio electronics) which I wasn’t familiar with. In that system CDT3 sounded highly resolute. I prefer the much cheaper CDT2 which while less resolving had a better flow and more analog sounding. The MBL sounded very complete and great all rounder kind of sound.. even sweet sounding..it was in an all MBL setup . Given the size and styling, I feel the MBL might look out of place in a non-MBL system. I haven’t got around to hear the Accustic Arts or the Vitus transport. I may also look up a good SACD transport for its added ability to play the SACD layer.
Thank you for your reply!

It is great to hear your thoughts, especially between the Jay's CDT3 and the CDT2 transports. What you report hearing between the two, mirrors what I believe I have read about the designer saying... that the CDM4 as having a touch more musicality than the CD-PRO2LF, while also being more reliable, more precise and more musical.

When you say the CDT2 has a better flow and more analog sounding... those are attributes that resonate well with me!

I'm curious... when comparing the two Jay's transports...
1. Did they have the upsampling to 176.4Khz engaged?
2. If so, could you hear much of a difference between the transport at 44.1Khz vs the 176.4Khz?
3. Which Dac and Speakers were they using?

I truly appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experiences with us!

Best wishes,
Don
 
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