How important is the room?

[NorthStar]

Yes, a "perfect" system in a "perfect" room would be the best of all possible worlds, but my "druthers" would be for something approaching the first option. Take this as an example: a live, top notch Spanish guitarist playing in perfect acoustics, bliss! The same guitarist playing in a really nothing environment, echoing badly say: you would still enjoy the quality of his playing and the tone of the instrument, you would be able to listen past the bad acoustic and still enjoy the musical message.

Then, take a rather lethargic and somewhat inept player, on a far less harmonious instrument, in a magnificent acoustic: the sense of the live instrument would still be something worth experiencing and pleasurable. But put that player in a poor acoustic, and it could be musical hell!!

Does that make sense?

Frank

The angle I'm coming from, Bob, is to make ALL the music I listen to sound good -- some people will say, and have said, this is a silly thing to do -- but there is an important reason for this "madness". And that is, if you do it the right way, in other words not "dumbing" the sound quality down, then EVERY recording you put on sounds good, is pleasurable to listen to.

I'll give you an example. The friend I'm helping put on an LP last time of an Australian group from the early 80's. Very high energy, fascinating playing around with the knobs in the studio, all sorts of effects, echo, etc -- I wasn't familiar with it, but it was tremendous to listen to! Turned out that it had been produced by one of the most notorious new wave gurus of that era; in other words it was an album that Jack, for example, wouldn't have tolerated listening to.

So, by the standards of a lot of people here that was a "bad" recording, but it didn't sound such. No work has been done to fix room acoustics; all energy has been put into making the system reproduce more cleanly.

It was irrelevant (if system worked well), OR relevant (if system needed a helping hand) ..

Frank

I'm all in Frank! From your two quotes above you are praising both the Artist & his Art
(Music playing), and the Room's Acoustic!
Simply awesome, fantastic! :b

* I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm pretty happy myself right now. :b

 

[MilkMan]

Alan Parsons certainly agrees that the room is important and he knows of what he speaketh!

http://www.cepro.com/story/alanparsons.html

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Alan Parsons certainly agrees that the room is important and he knows of what he speaketh!

http://www.cepro.com/story/alanparsons.html

Thank you for that!

 

[DaveyF]

Thanks MilkMan, a very interesting read.
Particularly interesting when Alan says "The hi-fi world attaches less importance to room acoustics, and prioritizes equipment; they are looking more at brand names and reputation." and what he says about recording:
"I think what perhaps critics don’t appreciate is that there is a lot of luck in getting a good sound. It’s not all about the equipment, spectral response and compressing. It’s all about the quality of the musicianship, the songwriting and the sound reaching the microphone … that’s crucial. It’s often been said, “garbage in means garbage out,” so if that’s the case you won’t get a good sound."

Have to agree with the man.

 

[NorthStar]

Alan Parsons certainly agrees that the room is important and he knows of what he speaketh!

http://www.cepro.com/story/alanparsons.html

I see you.

Good link! :b

 

[Bruce B]

Did anyone read this article?

Audiophiles Need Lesson in Small Room Acoustics

 

[DonH50]

My rank:

1. Room
2. Speakers
3. Electronics

 

[NorthStar]

Did anyone read this article?

Audiophiles Need Lesson in Small Room Acoustics

No, but now I just did. :b

Another good link Bruce.

 

[NorthStar]

My rank:

1. Room
2. Speakers
3. Electronics

I'm with ya! :b

* But just ahead of that list, the Music recordings. :b
...The artists (musicians & singers), with all the intensity of their passion,
and transmitted emotionally to us, the music listeners, through your list.
And of course that also means the music recording engineers, with their equipment (mics and machine recorders), plus their technics and the room where it was recorded ...

And last but certainly not least, the Magical accidents from the venue where the events took place. :b

 

[microstrip]

My rank:

1. Room
2. Speakers
3. Electronics

Don,

I also agree with your scale of priorities, as it seems logical, although I do not know exactly with what I mean with it. Sometimes I feel like if we are asking what is the most important thing in driving - the tires, the motor or the road?

It seems to me there is a real risk in allocating so much value in the room. Although most of us feel they are able to appreciate the quality of speakers and electronics, there are no standards for small room quality based on measurements at reasonable cost that do not rely on subjective expertise.

Saying it in different words, do you think that If we ask WBF members to supply measured evidence of the quality of their rooms they will be able to provide it?

 

[NorthStar]

Don,

I also agree with your scale of priorities, as it seems logical, although I do not know exactly with what I mean with it. Sometimes I feel like if we are asking what is the most important thing in driving - the tires, the motor or the road?

It seems to me there is a real risk in allocating so much value in the room. Although most of us feel they are able to appreciate the quality of speakers and electronics, there are no standards for small room quality based on measurements at reasonable cost that do not rely on subjective expertise.

Saying it in different words, do you think that If we ask WBF members to supply measured evidence of the quality of their rooms they will be able to provide it?

I understand exactly what you're saying Micro, and I agree with you.
It is a balance, a combination of all the ingredients (music recording, or medium, the room, the loudspeakers, and the electronica with all the apparatuses).
Not one in particular really takes priority, they all work in tandem, I believe.
In Harmony, in a Totality of the overall Ensemble: the Musical satisfaction.

 

[Steve williams]

Saying it in different words, do you think that If we ask WBF members to supply measured evidence of the quality of their rooms they will be able to provide it?

yes, without question most will

 

[microstrip]

yes, without question most will

Steve,
Assuming you are one of them, what will you be able to supply?

 

[Bruce B]

Steve,
Assuming you are one of them, what will you be able to supply?

What do you want? Freq. sweeps? Waterfalls? RT60? Impulse Response?

 

[NorthStar]

Waves from the waterfalls.

Sorry! :b

 

[fas42]

Don,

I also agree with your scale of priorities, as it seems logical, although I do not know exactly with what I mean with it. Sometimes I feel like if we are asking what is the most important thing in driving - the tires, the motor or the road?

It seems to me there is a real risk in allocating so much value in the room.

Supriiise, surpriiise -- my ranking is

1. Electronics
2. Speakers
3. Room

If we talk car analogies, the road, i.e. the recording, is the least important: it is what it is. What counts is the car as a balanced system, engineered for all the elements to work in harmony, all parts contribute to the whole. Lousy motor, great tyres -- tremendously safe, but very boring; great motor, lousy tyres -- how long will you be alive?

Frank

 

[Steve williams]

One again I would respectfully disagree as would IMO most everyone here.

A good room can make midfi sound wonderful

Post all the analogies you want Frank but the room IMO is #1

 

[microstrip]

What do you want? Freq. sweeps? Waterfalls? RT60? Impulse Response?

Bruce,

This was just my question - which of those you refer (or others) can be used as certificate of the quality of the room?

For some time I was taking RT60s of my room, then found that most people consider that its not a meaningful absolute parameter in small rooms, and even people debate how it should be measured.

Frequency sweeps are a characteristic of the system speaker-room , not of the room. And they are the more often used in the information available.

We should not reverse the roles - you are the experts - I am only the curious amateur.

 

[FrantzM]

One again I would respectfully disagree as would IMO most everyone here.

A good room can make midfi sound wonderful

Post all the analogies you want Frank but the room IMO is #1

Steve you are too kind and modest let's remove the "IMO"

"Room is #1"

 

[NorthStar]

Frank, please be flexible and smart in your principles of conventional wisdom. :b

...With full respect of course.

The acoustics of the space (Room) are certainly at the top of the list when it comes to overall music listening pleasantness. Everything else being equal ...

And the pair of Loudspeakers in that Room plays as an important major role,
to that overall pleasurable equation.

Then the electronica; including the preamplification, amplification, and the sources evidently.