You don't really "design for no hold down". Instead you might try to mask the symptoms from such a design, or you might simply prefer the sound they create. But the vibrations are there and they are affecting objective performance.
In praise of idlers
- Thread starter jespera
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Ive done the stacked platter mod on my Lenco and it works quite well, I am currently awaiting a new bearing to enable me to further explore the stacked platter option. In between the 2 platters I put a thin layer of cork to further reduce any rumble from the bottom platter. Luckily enough the damping rings from my Spacedeck fitted around the platter from the Lenco.
Doing this mod seemed to reduce the amount of rumble and made seemed to make the soundstage much larger and more holographic.
Lee
Folsom, it never occurred to me that energy would reflect from platter to underside of lp, 0.5" gap. I can certainly try some cork w inherent irregular structure.
It's not true the pods provide a non slip system for the lp.
My tt doesn't use an air bearing, that's my LT arm. No, it's more magnetic.
Unsure what you mean about grounding my tt. It's obv mechanical, grounding is surely for electronics?
It's not true the pods provide a non slip system for the lp.
My tt doesn't use an air bearing, that's my LT arm. No, it's more magnetic.
Unsure what you mean about grounding my tt. It's obv mechanical, grounding is surely for electronics?
Gonna look at a whole bunch of options re second platter. It'll effectively be a platter mat. But there are a few options to look at, from Acetyl/Delrin to cork to carbon fibre to rubber etc.
On Monday night I had a friend round to my house who wanted to compare his LP12 to my DIY Lenco GL75, my friend has similar taste in music to myself ie, Jazz, Blues, Rock and a bit of classical. My friend informed me that all in his LP12 had cost over £7000 and the cartridge was the Linn Krystal MC.
We started the session using my Lenco playing John Lee Hooker The Healer and then moved on to Cannonball Adderley Live In San Francisco. Right from the off the Lenco filled the room with music as it usually does with plenty of space around the instruments.
A quick change to the LP12 and the room filling had somewhat disappeared and the soundstage felt rather flat. Whilst the LP12 was still connected to the phono stage we played Fritz Reiner Schezerade on the Classic Vinyl Lable the predecessor to Analogue Productions, on this one the LP12 did sound very good and when we played it back on the Lenco we both felt that the LP12 sounded better, the LP12 kind of sits back and behind the speakers where as the Lenco projects more forward into the room.
After the session my friend has since gone out and brought a PTP6 Lenco with the solid bearing and a 12" Jelco arm, luckily for him someone on Lenco Heaven in the UK was selling one who only lived a few miles from where he lived.
The arm on my Lenco is the Jelco 750D and the cart is a NOS ATF5-OCC.
In the very near future I shall be trying the Long Dog Audio power conditioner which was designed for a Lenco user in the USA, its in its second generation and again I am hoping to see improvements who knows!
https://hifipig.com/longdog-audio-quartz-turntable-power-supply/
We started the session using my Lenco playing John Lee Hooker The Healer and then moved on to Cannonball Adderley Live In San Francisco. Right from the off the Lenco filled the room with music as it usually does with plenty of space around the instruments.
A quick change to the LP12 and the room filling had somewhat disappeared and the soundstage felt rather flat. Whilst the LP12 was still connected to the phono stage we played Fritz Reiner Schezerade on the Classic Vinyl Lable the predecessor to Analogue Productions, on this one the LP12 did sound very good and when we played it back on the Lenco we both felt that the LP12 sounded better, the LP12 kind of sits back and behind the speakers where as the Lenco projects more forward into the room.
After the session my friend has since gone out and brought a PTP6 Lenco with the solid bearing and a 12" Jelco arm, luckily for him someone on Lenco Heaven in the UK was selling one who only lived a few miles from where he lived.
The arm on my Lenco is the Jelco 750D and the cart is a NOS ATF5-OCC.
In the very near future I shall be trying the Long Dog Audio power conditioner which was designed for a Lenco user in the USA, its in its second generation and again I am hoping to see improvements who knows!
https://hifipig.com/longdog-audio-quartz-turntable-power-supply/
Len, I always chuckle when the audio gods are slain. The Linn Sondek in the 70s and 80s loomed like the Death Star over mere mortal tts. It's always fascinating to see how idlers like yrs can be like Kryptonite.
Re classical, it has to be said that neither the Linn or most idlers are likely to be the best choice. I've been on a bit of a mission to get results here w my rim drive, and have made great strides. However I'd probably want to run a top belt drive to surpass my tricked out Salvation on classical, and that would mean nothing less than a Brinkmann Balance, SME30, Kronos Pro or Vyger. Not gonna happen.
Re classical, it has to be said that neither the Linn or most idlers are likely to be the best choice. I've been on a bit of a mission to get results here w my rim drive, and have made great strides. However I'd probably want to run a top belt drive to surpass my tricked out Salvation on classical, and that would mean nothing less than a Brinkmann Balance, SME30, Kronos Pro or Vyger. Not gonna happen.
Thanks for the advice. I am vaguely aware of this one. Atm, an unused lp is doing quite nicely as lp mat.
I think the Tentuo mat might be too thick and heavy for my specific application, but I'll consider it.
I grabbed my cork off of some round thing at Home Depot.
So if you're LP is spinning and you touch the edge of it with your finger you'll get slip? If that's the case I'm not sure what the easy way to solve it would be. If you put something on top that doesn't slip, well... it has to have structure. Maybe cork on both sides of an LP glued on? Cork doesn't slip on rubber or LP's. Leather could work as well. I really thought that you wouldn't get any slip due to the material used, but I guess if the contact area isn't high enough who knows...
I know your TT doesn't use an air bearing, but the tonearm does. I was talking about the tonearm and adjustments to how easy it slides, and saying that I disagree with tonearms needing the lowest friction possible. So I'll ask the same question about adjusting the air bearing... can you? And did you try it?
With grounding I'm talking electrical. And the mod is something else.
Neat. I'm not sure if the tolerances will work out ok, but I'd first try having the platters only connected towards the inside of the platter. I recommend this an experiment. Just cut one or two pieces of cork about the size of a record label, and put them between the two. This stops a direct line of transmission from where the idle wheel is at from going upward. And of course cork isn't the only material to try.
(I've got a L75 that I'll get to some day, upgrades and everything)
Thanks for that I will have a look at this option. The new bearing that I am getting has been designed with a thread inserted into the top spindle to allow for an adaptor to take the stacked platter, its also an upgraded bearing to ascertain the extra mass from the 2 platters, when I get the bearing I will feedback here what affect it has, should be with me late september / early october
Folsom, my air LT runs at a fairly low 2.5-3psi, I believe, and yes it is adjustable for pressure. SQ is marginally best at the lower end of this range. I'm actually moving up to a newly imagined Terminator arm w better engineered air holes to allow even lower pressure.
Re electrical grounding and yr mod, I'll PM you. You can take this up on my dedicated Trans Fi Salvation tt thread.
I have found something similar when moving the counterweight to and from the pivot point. The inertia changes and this interacts with the cartridge's compliance. It is not as simple as saying that the best performance occurs when the counterweight is closest to the pivot. Sometimes, removing some weight and sliding it further away increases inertia and it sounds better. Friction/resistance/inertia can be good.
Well, I guess if zero friction means a cart skittling unimpeded over an lp, or an lp spinning off a platter, then it's a bad concept.
So been experimenting with double platters and mats on my idlers.
Short story is that its worth it. And i think its the effect of noise isolation.
Unfortunately double platter is out because i cant raise all my arms high enough.
Currently using a sandwich of cork and a tenuto gun metal on top.
Jesper
Short story is that its worth it. And i think its the effect of noise isolation.
Unfortunately double platter is out because i cant raise all my arms high enough.
Currently using a sandwich of cork and a tenuto gun metal on top.
Jesper
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why can't you have a thicker arm board manufactured you could also play around with a sandwich of materials, this you increase the height.
Its a bit more complicated unfortunately;
For the L70 i can raise arm but then I loose the function of the lift. I need to figure out if theres a way around that. Also i think i better support the bearing from below because the top plate is a bit flimsy on the L70.
Particularly with two platters.
For the ptp the spindle extension i have doesnt fit on top of the spindle because its a non-standard spindle.
Jesper
For the L70 i can raise arm but then I loose the function of the lift. I need to figure out if theres a way around that. Also i think i better support the bearing from below because the top plate is a bit flimsy on the L70.
Particularly with two platters.
For the ptp the spindle extension i have doesnt fit on top of the spindle because its a non-standard spindle.
Jesper
Jesper, there's a whole lifestyle based on idling. Not being driven at work, enjoying being in the moment, taking time. I totally subscribe to it. And now I can add idling in audio to the whole feelgood approach to life.
That's a good call Spirit. I use a couple pods of T304 Stainless steel under my idler. They rest on a 400 lb. Vibraplane table that holds the turntable and phono stage also. When building my turntable I found T304 stainless to sound much different than lead.
That's a job for anti-skate, not friction. Can someone please explain to me when tonearm friction is good?
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