Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

For those who just started reading up on Olympus, Olympus I/O, and XDMI, please note that all information in this thread has been summarized in a single PDF document that can be downloaded from the Taiko Website.

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/taiko-audio-downloads

The document is frequently updated.

Scroll down to the 'XDMI, Olympus Music Server, Olympus I/O' section and click 'XDMI, Olympus, Olympus I/O Product Introduction & FAQ' to download the latest version.

Good morning WBF!​

We are introducing the culmination of close to 4 years of research and development. As a bona fide IT/tech nerd with a passion for music, I have always been intrigued by the potential of leveraging the most modern of technologies in order to create a better music playback experience. This, amongst others, led to the creation of our popular, perhaps even revolutionary, Extreme music server 5 years ago, which we have been steadily improving and updating with new technologies throughout its life cycle. Today I feel we can safely claim it's holding its ground against the onslaught of new server releases from other companies, and we are committed to keep improving it for years to come.

We are introducing a new server model called the Olympus. Hierarchically, it positions itself above the Extreme. It does provide quite a different music experience than the Extreme, or any other server I've heard, for that matter. Conventional audiophile descriptions such as sound staging, dynamics, color palette, etc, fall short to describe this difference. It does not sound digital or analog, I would be inclined to describe it as coming closer to the intended (or unintended) performance of the recording engineer.

Committed to keeping the Extreme as current as possible, we are introducing a second product called the Olympus I/O. This is an external upgrade to the Extreme containing a significant part of the Olympus technology, allowing it to come near, though not entirely at, Olympus performance levels. The Olympus I/O can even be added to the Olympus itself to elevate its performance even further, though not as dramatic an uplift as adding it to the Extreme. Consider it the proverbial "cherry on top".

 

Re-reading the discussion over the last few pages I see the potential for some misconceptions to start occurring.

1) Local storage file playback quality is not inferior to router + network sourced playback files, it’s equal.

2) Adding a drive to the Olympus however is not completely inaudible, nothing huge but you can hear a small difference on a highly resolving system, I’d rate this at a 1-2% impact, not enough to actually worry about. If I hadn’t mentioned it I’m sure nobody would have ever noticed it.

3) This does make a NAS a viable option for storing your music as you’ll have the same sound quality as playing from local storage, at a much lower price, you can have virtually unlimited storage sizes and you have more data security strategies to play around with. (Again assuming you use the Taiko router). There is a downside as well, being it may add some complexity to your setup.

Emile,
What do you think about the SQ of an HD or SSD disk plugged into the USB port of the Router, which it was supposed to be used as a NAS itself? How does it compare to local stored files in the Olympus? And compared to an independent network NAS?
Assuming that we have Router/Switch/DCD in the Taiko network, of course.
Is the USB port of the router too noisy and degrades SQ compared to an independent network NAS?
Sorry, to many questions…, too much anxiety
I know we must try for ourselves but your guidance is mandatory for us to prepare one solution over the other or, discard another.
Thank you.

 

Emile,
What do you think about the SQ of an HD or SSD disk plugged into the USB port of the Router, which it was supposed to be used as a NAS itself? How does it compare to local stored files in the Olympus? And compared to an independent network NAS?
Assuming that we have Router/Switch/DCD in the Taiko network, of course.
Is the USB port of the router too noisy and degrades SQ compared to an independent network NAS?
Sorry, to many questions…, too much anxiety
I know we must try for ourselves but your guidance is mandatory for us to prepare one solution over the other or, discard another.
Thank you.

I have zero issues with answering any questions that may arise, as far as possible

Indeed there are so many possible permutations to try that I simply lack the time to test everything personally.

Addressing storage attached to the router:
1) There are 2 internal m.2 ports which can accommodate storage drives. Unfortunately this appears to suffer from a similar degradation as using m.2 drives in the Olympus. The router draws around 5-6 watts but these drives can easily double power consumption, and perhaps even worse draw several amps of current as they run off 3v3 rails. This sortoff wastes all that’s good about the router being a fixed continuous current draw which does not vary at all when loaded, where the drives vary allover the place.

2) That leaves storage connected to the USB port, powering it from the USB port creates similar issues as 1), its a bit more benign as it runs off 5V in stead of 3V3, but still very much audible.

3) Naturally you can use an externally powered USB drive, that solves that particular problem, but we currently only have ext4 filesystem support (linux), and not all drives work. So we’re currently working on adding support for multiple filesystems like AFS (apple), FAT32, NTFS (windows). This is not very difficult to do and I expect this to work pretty soon, aka TBC It’s an interesting option for sure, your music collection will always be at \\192.168.100.1\usb and you can just plug the drive into your mac or windows desktop to copy additional music files to it or create backups etc.

 

I have zero issues with answering any questions that may arise, as far as possible

Indeed there are so many possible permutations to try that I simply lack the time to test everything personally.

Addressing storage attached to the router:
1) There are 2 internal m.2 ports which can accommodate storage drives. Unfortunately this appears to suffer from a similar degradation as using m.2 drives in the Olympus. The router draws around 5-6 watts but these drives can easily double power consumption, and perhaps even worse draw several amps of current as they run off 3v3 rails. This sortoff wastes all that’s good about the router being a fixed continuous current draw which does not vary at all when loaded, where the drives vary allover the place.

2) That leaves storage connected to the USB port, powering it from the USB port creates similar issues as 1), its a bit more benign as it runs off 5V in stead of 3V3, but still very much audible.

3) Naturally you can use an externally powered USB drive, that solves that particular problem, but we currently only have ext4 filesystem support (linux), and not all drives work. So we’re currently working on adding support for multiple filesystems like AFS (apple), FAT32, NTFS (windows). This is not very difficult to do and I expect this to work pretty soon, aka TBC It’s an interesting option for sure, your music collection will always be at \\192.168.100.1\usb and you can just plug the drive into your mac or windows desktop to copy additional music files to it or create backups etc.

Thank you Emile. Your number 3) is a fantastic solution. I’ll gladly wait for the router firmware update.

 

@Taiko Audio

Hi Emile,

I'm still debating between internal storage or a NAS connected to the Taiko Router.

If I opt for a NAS it would be :

- Synology DS723+
- 2 x 16Tb WD Red Pro (in RAID1)

The NAS would be placed in my network cabinet, with all the rest of the stuff (yes, I can try making some room for a 2 bay NAS).

The network cabinet is in a small storage room.

The NAS would be connected to the Taiko Router (so it would be part of the Taiko network).

The NAS would NOT be powered by an LPS.

In this context, would there still be a gain over internal storage?

If not, or marginal, I'll stick to 15 To of internal storage.

Thank you for your help,

Cheers,

Thomas

 

@Taiko Audio

Hi Emile,

I'm still debating between internal storage or a NAS connected to the Taiko Router.

If I opt for a NAS it would be :

- Synology DS723+
- 2 x 16Tb WD Red Pro (in RAID1)

The NAS would be placed in my network cabinet, with all the rest of the stuff (yes, I can try making some room for a 2 bay NAS).

The network cabinet is in a small storage room.

The NAS would be connected to the Taiko Router (so it would be part of the Taiko network).

The NAS would NOT be powered by an LPS.

In this context, would there still be a gain over internal storage?

If not, I'll stick to 15 To of internal storage.

Thank you for your help,

Cheers,

Thomas

There’s no gain over local storage, there’s just a very small benefit to not mounting a local storage drive. It’s too small to obsess about, I would just pick the solution which suits you best. From a cost savings perspective a NAS becomes more interesting if your music library is very large, like 30-60TB. Or if you already use a NAS, which many do for backup purposes or as a general storage facility for documents, movies, photos etc, you might consider just using that as there’s no longer a SQ benefit to using internal/local storage in the Olympus (assuming the use of our router to create an audio exclusive network of course).

 

There’s no gain over local storage, there’s just a very small benefit to not mounting a local storage drive. It’s too small to obsess about, I would just pick the solution which suits you best. From a cost savings perspective a NAS becomes more interesting if your music library is very large, like 30-60TB. Or if you already use a NAS, which many do for backup purposes or as a general storage facility for documents, movies, photos etc, you might consider just using that as there’s no longer a SQ benefit to using internal/local storage in the Olympus (assuming the use of our router to create an audio exclusive network).

Thanks for your swift reply

I have a NAS with 6 bays where I store all the family's data, including music.

However, I have one constraint: this NAS must remain in the home network. So I can't connect it to the Taiko Router.

I could use that NAS for music, but the Olympus Server would have to be able to access it.

That would be the situation I described yesterday. Which would be just perfect.

The question is, is this possible and what about sound?

Unfortunatelly we don't have the answer to these questions at the moment.

Anyway my music library is below 9 TB, so I might simply end-up with the internal storage.

 

Thanks for your swift reply

I have a NAS with 6 bays where I store all the family's data, including music.

However, I have one constraint: this NAS must remain in the home network. So I can't connect it to the Taiko Router.

I could use that NAS for music, but the Olympus Server would have to be able to access it.

That would be the situation I described yesterday. Which would be just perfect.

The question is, is this possible and what about sound?

Unfortunatelly we don't have the answer to these questions at the moment.

Anyway my music library is below 9 TB, so I might simply end-up with the internal storage.



View attachment 132054

Yeah unfortunately it’s not 100% predictable how things turn out unless you actually test each specific scenario, which would be quite a project on its own. Based on hearing zero difference between downloaded Qobuz files stored on a NAS versus streaming those same files directly from Qobuz you would expect there to not be any significant differences to where the NAS is located.

 

Yeah unfortunately it’s not 100% predictable how things turn out unless you actually test each specific scenario, which would be quite a project on its own. Based on hearing zero difference between downloaded Qobuz files stored on a NAS versus streaming those same files directly from Qobuz you would expect there to not be any significant differences to where the NAS is located.

That does indeed make sense.

There shouldn't be any difference.

I think I'll stick with internal storage though.

That will give me a baseline.

If one day I decide to use my main NAS or a dedicated NAS, I'll have a baseline against which to compare.

Again thank for your help/advices.

Cheers,

Thomas

 

This is how I understood Emile's views (please correct me if wrong): equal to local playback (without the 3 devices) only if streaming is used with the 3 devices (Router, Switch & DCD); otherwise, local playback is easily better (I recalled 20-25% better; but somebody mentioned 10-15% better). Streaming from Qobus (which I tried for a month 2 years ago) would be streaming from FLAC for its HiFi albums (not WAV files for bandwidth reasons presumably); you can stream from your NAS files (WAV), which would require the use of the 3 devices to be equal to local playback (without the 3 devices). If you factor in the SQ difference between WAV and FLAC, I doubt streaming with the 3 devices would be 1-2% better than local playback (also can you really hear the 1-2% better SQ?). Then you factor in the euro 15K cost for the 3 devices - it is no brainer for me to get local storage. I am asking why I even need 8TB because I constantly delete and add from and to the server storage. I am leaning toward 8TB though (to have no regrets down the road). Stand to be educated.

I think Emile is saying the sq is equal between streamed and local Qobuz files when Taiko router-switch-dcd is used on both local and streamed files.

If I have this correct, this lowers my perceived need for local storage (internal or external).

That is, unless there is an option to aquire better sounding WAV (rather than flac) files, for instance.

To this point, I’ve been so satisfied with streaming that I haven’t taken the time to build a download collection. (though I’d like to even for no other reason than support the artists).

 

I think Emile is saying the sq is equal between streamed and local Qobuz files when Taiko router-switch-dcd is used on both local and streamed files.

If I have this correct, this lowers my perceived need for local storage (internal or external).

Correct!

That is, unless there is an option to aquire better sounding WAV (rather than flac) files, for instance.

There are indeed differences between masters / editions etc, when exclusively streaming you’re limited to the editions Tidal/Qobuz offer. Flac vs wav, more or less irrelevant though.

 

That does indeed make sense.

There shouldn't be any difference.

I think I'll stick with internal storage though.

That will give me a baseline.

If one day I decide to use my main NAS or a dedicated NAS, I'll have a baseline against which to compare.

Again thank for your help/advices.

Cheers,

Thomas

You’re welcome, looking forward to your experiences

 

That does indeed make sense.

There shouldn't be any difference.

I think I'll stick with internal storage though.

That will give me a baseline.

If one day I decide to use my main NAS or a dedicated NAS, I'll have a baseline against which to compare.

Again thank for your help/advices.

Cheers,

Thomas

Without a baseline much of this is purely conjecture. I think we forget the multiple variables that come into play here. Not to even mention personal tastes...

 

What it comes down to is 2 scenarios:
1) you have the Taiko* router -> everything sounds about the same
2) you don’t have the Taiko* router -> local files sound best

*This might also be true for other routers but I’ve not been able to test that.

In scenario 1), the Taiko router takes input from a generic switch via RJ45. Assuming one isn’t using the Taiko switch, does the router output directly to the Olympus via DAC cable with no other parts or adapters needed?

 

In scenario 1), the Taiko router takes input from a generic switch via RJ45. Assuming one isn’t using the Taiko switch, does the router output directly to the Olympus via DAC cable with no other parts or adapters needed?

Yes correct.

 

Without a baseline much of this is purely conjecture. I think we forget the multiple variables that come into play here. Not to even mention personal tastes...

I completely share your view on this.

That's especially true given that we all have different listening rooms.

Two strictly identical systems will sound different depending on the room they're in.

We often underestimate the impact of the listening room. Even more so if it is not acoustically treated.

The reality is that the listening room is the most important element of the hi-fi system (unless, of course, one uses headphones).

Cheers,

Thomas

 

I completely share your view on this.

That's especially true given that we all have different listening rooms.

Two strictly identical systems will sound different depending on the room they're in.

We often underestimate the impact of the listening room. Even more so if it is not acoustically treated.

The reality is that the listening room is the most important element of the hi-fi system (unless, of course, one uses headphones).

Cheers,

Thomas

Exactly! Room alone is a massive piece to all of this. I also think when we are about to introduce new components its only natural to feel a bit unsettled. All of us have a great deal of passion in what we do here...

 

Exactly! Room alone is a massive piece to all of this. I also think when we are about to introduce new components its only natural to feel a bit unsettled. All of us have a great deal of passion in what we do here...

I agree that the room is critical. However, for each of us that is a constant when we make changes to our systems. So, while it is key part of the equation, it doesn’t change when we go from one server to another, or make changes to our server. For Emile, I assume that is the same. Thus, his quality improvement/difference percentages relate only to the change made.

 

I agree that the room is critical. However, for each of us that is a constant when we make changes to our systems. So, while it is key part of the equation, it doesn’t change when we go from one server to another, or make changes to our server. For Emile, I assume that is the same. Thus, his quality improvement/difference percentages relate only to the change made.

Understood, for sure. I think the crux of the point that Tom made and I whole heartedly agree with, is that there are many variables in sonic interpretation that could sway. For example NAS along with all the bells and whistles may present a sonic improvement in say Emile's listening space. That doesn't automatically present the same across the board in all listening spaces/systems...

 

Exactly! Room alone is a massive piece to all of this. I also think when we are about to introduce new components its only natural to feel a bit unsettled. All of us have a great deal of passion in what we do here...

The E pushed me to further improve my room(thank you @Nenon). I've a feeling the big O will do same.
My own experience has taught me the room and mains are instrumental to success.

 

I think Emile is saying the sq is equal between streamed and local Qobuz files when Taiko router-switch-dcd is used on both local and streamed files.

If I have this correct, this lowers my perceived need for local storage (internal or external).

Correct!
______________________________________

@Taiko Audio Emile, I am confused by your apparently different responses. (I got PMs from others who were similarly confused.) Earlier (including 2 days ago), you posted that local storage is for those for who do not want to bother with the use of an additional router (which could be difficult even for an IT pro) and that for streaming one would need to get Router, Switch and DCD to achieve the same SQ (or perhaps 1-2% better SQ) as local storage (which I always understood as not using Router, Switch and DCD). Now your latest view is that even for playback from local storage, one should get an additional router to achieve the best SQ? (Your latest view is also that Switch and DCD are optional, for those who want to get some kind of "tuning"). Could you please clarify? Thanks.