Introducing the All-new Center Stage Ultra TT Feet for Turntables and Center Stage Ultra TD Feet for Tape Decks

[ssfas]

It’s all a master of preference. I prefer CMS in my system Plus I use all CMS racks with the footers. All the same technology. As I said Joe isn’t big on using competing technologies in the same system

I appreciate there are different types of technology that can be applied, I just wanted to know what's behind his footers. It's not clear at all.

I have a rack being made by a local metalworker (he made the stand for my drinks cabinet) and I have a slate top coming from Wales. The shelves will sit on sorbothane, which I've used for many years. All the other components have perfectly good feet designed by the component manufacturer. It's only the turntable I'm concerned about.

 

[steve williams]

simply put Joe’s racks are designed around the first law of thermodynamics, and his footers are designed around the second law of thermodynamics.

 

[steve williams]

For very obvious reasons of copy cat technology you won’t find any cross section views. I’ve known him for years and I’ve heard snippets of the technology but behind that I feel he’s very correct to keep the physics behind the design in his mind alone. I respect that.

I can tell you that Taiko Audio here learned the hard way when they were asked to see a new upcoming USB board. Taiko obliged and next thing they knew there were copycat boards being produced. So I understand your question and I’m trying to give you understanding why you’ll not see a cross section or anything similar. The number of people who read WBF has grown enormously so you can understand why once again you’re not going to see diagrams. I also know that based on their complexity it might take 4-6 weeks to produce these

 

[ssfas]

simply put Joe’s racks are designed around the first law of thermodynamics, and his footers are designed around the second law of thermodynamics.

All I asked was if there is a cross-section drawing.

I don't do science, never could get my head around it and gave up aged 14, so thermodynamics is not in my ballpark.

 

[ssfas]

For very obvious reasons of copy cat technology you won’t find any cross section views. I’ve known him for years and I’ve heard snippets of the technology but behind that I feel he’s very correct to keep the physics behind the design in his mind alone. I respect that.

I can tell you that Taiko Audio here learned the hard way when they were asked to see a new upcoming USB board. Taiko obliged and next thing they knew there were copycat boards being produced. So I understand your question and I’m trying to give you understanding why you’ll not see a cross section or anything similar. The number of people who read WBF has grown enormously so you can understand why once again you’re not going to see diagrams. I also know that based on their complexity it might take 4-6 weeks to produce these

Actually, I don't buy that. If you invent something, patent it. Lots of audio companies do this. The patent will include the drawings. He has patented one product, not these feet.

The USA has some of the strictest IP laws in the world. I had a big IP/trademark fight in California and lost. If Amazon or eBay receive a patent infringement notification they will delist the copycat products immediately and you will need a court judgement in you favour to get them relisted.

If there are no drawings available, then fine.

Incidentally, his patented support boxes use layers of vicoacoustic material. I'm sure sorbothane is one of those, which is what I use. There are all sorts of vicoacoustic material - I use large 600x600x15mm sheets under the machines in our laundry room and they make a massive difference.

 

[steve williams]

FWIW right now the worst thing you can do is patent your invention because you can be certain it will be copied. Try enforcing that patent when the copy cat is half a world away.

 

[ssfas]

FWIW right now the worst thing you can do is patent your invention because you can be certain it will be copied. Try enforcing that patent when the copy cat is half a world away.

If they try and sell it in the USA online they will soon be blocked. Been there. You end up having to pay Amazon to destroy the stock. Some countries don't have any IP laws.

Patented or not, an Asian company can chop a product up and copy it. It has to be worthwhile. There was a Chinese company that copied WAVAC amplifiers, they were as good as the originals. In the UK where we use billions of 13A fuses there are many Chinese fuses that are uncertified and illegal.

The best way to avoid copying, besides IP protection, is to make it uneconomic to copy. I use Kridon Image for my turntable and IsoAcoustics ISO-Puck 76 under my speakers. In the past I've used Townshend for components, which are absolutely brilliant.

I was thinking of using Townshend feet for my turntable, but they are not height adjustable.

 

[Wutang-401`]

hi
could i get some clarity on what has happened to the LS range? I am finding press releases that indicate the full range of 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5 LS models was released mid 2023. But it has now been superseded by the LS 2.25?

difficult to find out anything about this new one. All I know is the 2.25 is being used by @Steve Williams under his Taiko and he loves it.

I know I am in wrong thread but pls take pity and provide me with an update. My head is starting to swim. For what it is worth the LS 1.5 look amazing (so beefy). Is the 2.25 a sonic upgrade?

 

[steve williams]

I've owned the LS 1.5 for the past 3-4 years. Those 2 sets give a sonic uptick far greater than under all my electronics (72)

There is indeed now an update to the LS series which came out 3-4 years ago. The first one has been released. It replaces the LS 0.8 and now called the LS Ultra 2.25.. Im certain in coming months the updates will come for the LS 1.0 and LS 1.5

 

[Wutang-401`]

thanks Steve. I get it now.

 

[strapper211]

Hi Steve,

Since you are the expert on the Critical Mass TT and TD and we have the same Lamm
electronics ML3,LL1,LP1 would you recommend the TD under the power supplies of
the Lamm equipment.Is it worth spending that much money on the power supplies.
I use Dalby Lignum feet under the main units of the ML3,LL1 and LP1.
Thank You

Robert

 

[Wutang-401`]

CMS have previously indicated product revisions occur when major upgrades are possible. Does this mean the LS 2.25 is an upgrade over the LS0.8?

 

[steve williams]

Hi Steve,

Since you are the expert on the Critical Mass TT and TD and we have the same Lamm
electronics ML3,LL1,LP1 would you recommend the TD under the power supplies of
the Lamm equipment.Is it worth spending that much money on the power supplies.
I use Dalby Lignum feet under the main units of the ML3,LL1 and LP1.
Thank You

Robert

I have Ultra TT under all of my power supplies as well as all electronics except my Taiko Extreme where I use the new LS Ultra 2.25 and yes it makes a difference

 

[steve williams]

CMS have previously indicated product revisions occur when major upgrades are possible. Does this mean the LS 2.25 is an upgrade over the LS0.8?

It's a huge upgrade over the existing LS 0.8. Plus the beauty of the LS Ultra 2.25 is that it costs less than the Ultra TT

 

[rhyno]

hi all, just trying to come up to speed here, advise welcome:

does the TD/TT/TC replace the 2m series? is the 2m now out of production?

if you were to only buy for one component to start, where do you start? streamer / transport, or dac, or pre / amp?

given competing technologies employed in alternative equipment racks (not selling my newly acquired symposium ultra), is this a problem?
(i saw various folks recommend removing competing technologies, but thats not an option if its built into the rack itself)

anyone use differing mfg's offerings along with CM CS footers in a rig? or is it counterproductive, making this an 'all or nothing' type product?

 

[Wutang-401`]

2m out of production.

initial LS series now made and sold by speaker people.

new LS series is better but only 0.8 equivalent released to date (LS 2.25)

LS 2.25 is for speakers but can also be used under components

go as early in the chain as you can. so
1. power distributor
2. source
3. amplification

CMS footers will improve whatever they are under. might be a good idea to get rid of other stuff and see what CMS sound like in isolation before adding other stuff but as long as not used on same component it is all good.

 

[steve williams]

2m out of production.

initial LS series now made and sold by speaker people.

new LS series is better but only 0.8 equivalent released to date (LS 2.25)

LS 2.25 is for speakers but can also be used under components

go as early in the chain as you can. so
1. power distributor
2. source
3. amplification

CMS footers will improve whatever they are under. might be a good idea to get rid of other stuff and see what CMS sound like in isolation before adding other stuff but as long as not used on same component it is all good.

you shouldn't use Center stage with competing alternate forms of footers

 

[steve williams]

2m out of production.

initial LS series now made and sold by speaker people.

new LS series is better but only 0.8 equivalent released to date (LS 2.25)

LS 2.25 is for speakers but can also be used under components

go as early in the chain as you can. so
1. power distributor
2. source
3. amplification

CMS footers will improve whatever they are under. might be a good idea to get rid of other stuff and see what CMS sound like in isolation before adding other stuff but as long as not used on same component it is all good.

my suggestion is that you start always at the source so try under DAC or server or preamp (if you have multiple sources). I did power supplies at the end. I started as I said and have a total of 80 Center Stage Ultra TT under my electronics including amps and power supplies.I use the new LS Ultra 2.25 under my Taiko Extreme

 

[rhyno]

i just got two posts with two conflicting answers.
am i to not use competing footers under other any other gear while i try my first set of CS footers under a dac or transport/server?
or am i just to wait until i come up with $10k for footers before starting the all-in-one jump---yes, that sounds and IS insane.

of course, the hobby is insane, but there's levels i'm comfortable with. i guess i'm trying to find out how insane the rest of you are.

 

[steve williams]

simply put, Joe recommends against using competing technologies when using his products