Is it unwise to buy a state of the art CD player at this time?

[NorthStar]

Mr. Russ, and other dignified WBF association members, I am spinning this exact music recording right now (CD music format):

It is also available on LP, on SACD, and on hi-res digital audio download (FLAC, WAV).
It is spinning from a modest CD player...Rotel RCD-991 (an old CD player from the prehistoric ages), and through a very modest/humble stereo hi-fi sound system (mid four digits).

It sounds sublime! Give it Up to Love but don't give up the CD. :b

? Classical music is my main music interest in life, and so is Blues. ...And Jazz. ...And Tango. ...And Flamenco. ...And ...
Whatever we like, whoever we love, give it all you have.

 

[fas42]

Back in the DOS days, I got a copy of Windows 1.0. Everything about it was awful except one thing: my wife who was used to a Mac could navigate Windows but would not touch DOS. I saw that and was convinced that we would all migrate to that kind of universe. Sure, I would miss being able to type fast and do things in DOS and not have to constantly reach for the mouse. But the future is the future. We better adopt it and not keep giving contrarian views based on personal preference right here, right now.

Amir, the answer to that is, power. To this day, I eventually tire of silly Windows interfaces to utilities where I just want to get a job done - only a few days ago I was looking around for a decent downloading tool, and all the semi-dumb Windows variations which were all about lipstick on rather clumsy and inadequate pigs were peeing me off. Finally, I came across the pure DOS beast - and this was it: power, pure power, and nothing else. Complete control over my options, what was going on, and how to go about it - nirvana, at last ... !!

 

[still-one]

You meant Roon or Sooloos?

Same for me with Roon and Tidal.. My own collection is perfectly integrated within Roon with the known weaknesses in Classical music... I recently noticed that Roon was showing much less albums than I knew I had.. A thousand les as a matter of fact then I discovered that several albums were ripped by the software I used at the times ( eac or was it dbPoweramp? Can't remember) in .ape ... Fortunately dbpoweramp has a batch option and I converted all the .ape in ,flac .. Albums now show up in Roon

I still use Sooloos. I understand that Tidal is actually better integrated into Roon than Sooloos. I tried Sooloos in it's early incarnation and I dumped it within a week. It didn't display my Sooloos files properly, it was a PIA to quickly select and play music. I don't search for music the way Roon was working. At that time I would have needed a PC in addition to my Mac gear to fiddle with endpoints.

I understand Roon has made significant changes and will continue to evolve. It still may be in my future if I decide to purchase NAS, a dac.......

 

[microstrip]

You meant Roon or Sooloos?

Same for me with Roon and Tidal.. My own collection is perfectly integrated within Roon with the known weaknesses in Classical music... I recently noticed that Roon was showing much less albums than I knew I had.. A thousand les as a matter of fact then I discovered that several albums were ripped by the software I used at the times ( eac or was it dbPoweramp? Can't remember) in .ape ... Fortunately dbpoweramp has a batch option and I converted all the .ape in ,flac .. Albums now show up in Roon

You said it all - how can you recommend to people who probably are just browser and MSoffice users to go in such systems? Who will teach them all these small details?

I envy those who are experts in IT or have sons or friends that took care of their computer audio systems. I am a proficient user of computers, Labview, virtual instruments, but have been fighting for the last two days to install an audiophile NAS - Synology 416j with RED WD 4T disks. I read a few threads at several sites, it looked quite simple- I installed DSM, Java8 and then when installing miminserver it asks to upgrade Java8 and aborts installation. Dead lock, there is no upgrade to Java8. Those who are considering a computer audio NAS please see this interesting page http://minimserver.com/install-synology.html- it looked really simple!

 

[FrantzM]

microstrip

Same with anything in High End you learn and sometimes the leaning curve can be extremely steep, in analogue or dogital

but if you don't want to try or think it is too difficult and not for you .. then it is fine.

THe reality is that we're moving away from physical substrate for our media. DVD sales are down, CDs sales are down, Books sales are down.
I am an avid reader: I find the notion of an e-Reader most convenient yet I prefer to read magazine in Print form. I don't mind reading books in an e-reader. For magazine I prefer printed.

For my music it is files, UI and management are Roon and music software are my CD collection whose growth has been slowed by Tidal and TIdal is my goto for music. I will try Qobuz soon... ... For you its different. Fine.

For Russ.... I believe he has a wealth of opinions and some facts on which to make his decisions.

Do enjoy the music people! in whatever way you can.

 

[microstrip]

microstrip

Same with anything in High End you learn and sometimes the leaning curve can be extremely steep, in analogue or dogital

but if you don't want to try or think it is too difficult and not for you .. then it is fine.

THe reality is that we're moving away from physical substrate for our media. DVD sales are down, CDs sales are down, Books sales are down.
I am an avid reader: I find the notion of an e-Reader most convenient yet I prefer to read magazine in Print form. I don't mind reading books in an e-reader. For magazine I prefer printed.

For my music it is files, UI and management are Roon and music software are my CD collection whose growth has been slowed by Tidal and TIdal is my goto for music. I will try Qobuz soon... ... For you its different. Fine.

For Russ.... I believe he has a wealth of opinions and some facts on which to make his decisions.

Do enjoy the music people! in whatever way you can.

You are mistaken - I will try, learn and solve the problems. But I will not tell others that digital high-end is simple or inexpensive and that compromised situations are acceptable!

The argument that sales of physical media are decreasing without looking for the proper numbers and its evolution worldwide can be misleading. The existing numbers and the rate of disappearance is low enough to keep supplies good enough for as long as the ears of most of us will go on working. People should realize about it when making THEIR own choices.

Concerning digital music we should separate streaming from downloads, where you keep your own recordings. Streaming is a lifestyle, completely different from collecting recordings, and we should consider them independently. And probably an interesting subject for posting.

Just to end I have now taken an evaluation period of Tidal. Much more than I expected from my CD music collection is missing there. And there are no inner notes at all for most of it - sorry, for me it is good for background music. Music for me is a join of knowledge and art.

BTW, physical media digital optimal playback can be much better I could imagine one month ago. More about it next week in another thread.

 

[mullard88]

Hi Russ,

On post#37, I have nothing to offer on the Ayon CD-T transport or the Ayon Stratos dac. But it made me wonder if this combination sounds close to the Spectral 4000SV?

Sam

 

[FrantzM]

microstrip

High End anything is usually expensive. I thought we were over that
Simple is a relative notion.
Let's take the example of driving.. most everyone on this board drive ... few are able to race cars. Same with anything in life once you get to a certain level. Ripping is easy. getting the best out of CA is not easy. Setting up a TT is not, nor is setting up a R2R or even a 2-ch system. We are trying to get the best of a medium this requires effort and learning and care.
I maintain that streaming music ( I suppose that some would download their music and burn them on CD .. that looks to me quite interesting ) gets you to another level in term of music enjoyment. It is not "simple" but can be done.
As for Tidal missing some things .. that is certainly true, you could add Qobuz to the equation and Spotify ...ooops scratch that its mp3 ... ... What they miss and you like you buy.

$20/month for over a millions of albums ... that is a pretty good deal. Even if only 1% of what they have is any musically good .. that's over 10,000 albums ... if you add Qobuz, that's over 15,000 albums ...
As for Physical media not decreasing .. Believe that is NOT the case all you want, the facts don't support your belief. All around the world, Newspapers are disappearing and kids download most of their music, you could ask Netflix how their DVD renting service is growing ...as compared to their streaming services. I do get your point though there are enough Cds around to listen for a very long time. There are enough books in circulation never to have to buy a e-book and there are enough DVD of movies never to want to stream through Netflix... I could add there are enough LPs in circulation for some to never having to buy a CD... I prefer the joy of discovery, the ease , convenience and ergonomy of files.. You don't .. No problems , no harm done.

Now let me go back to Roon .. controlled by the same PC I am writing this on...

 

[Mobiusman]

I have read very carefully Russ's original first post, plus the long one you responded to.
I'm from your line of thought. Russ listened to it (Spectal SDR-4000SV) and he loved what he heard.
And from his Oppo 103 he can play DSD (SACD) files.

There is only one set of ears that can truly suggest a good direction for his musical enchantment; his.
________

Some of Russ's latest quotes that arrested my attention:

1 - "Central to this is listening to more music and spending less time and energy on what equipment I have and how to tweak out the extra couple percent.

2 - I have always eventually come to the same conclusion, the music is much more important than the system. I have heard a number of very simple inexpensive systems recently that produce almost as much joy for me as my most recent elaborate system.

3 - ...is streaming digital sound "good enough" for my digital listening or do I try to make my current CD library sound as good as possible and continue to buy CD’s instead of shifting to streaming and vinyl.

4 - SACD's are a non-issue for me because I have none and do not plan to buy any even though they can sound incredible ((Many certainly do)). Besides, if I do want some SACD's I can play them on the Oppo BDP 103 connected to an excellent DAC like my Meitner if I buy the Spectral SDR 4000SV, to a tube DAC if do not buy the Spectral.

5 - The Spectral SV circuitry is amazing and I am thrilled to have it in both my Spectral DMC 30SV preamp and the Spectral DMC 300RS power amp, but I love, colored or not, the slight tube/analog influence that I had to sacrifice when I sold my tube preamp because it was not compatible with the Spectral DMC 300RS. While adding the Spectral SDR 4000SV would make a full SV signal path from the CD to speaker that would undoubtedly be incredible with the lowest possible noise floor, I fear that I would miss the slight influence of having some tubes in the digital signal path.

6 - The Spectral SDR 4000SV is an incredible piece, possibly the best CD player on the market. I understand that the purist approach at Spectral and with Keith Johnson in particular necessitated designing only for Red Book and that having digital inputs would take away from the design and performance ((That is also my take)).

7 - ... For this reason and my hearing problems, the Spectral SDR 4000SV is a no go for me, although a part of me will always regret this decision.

8 - I am totally confused about which way to go, but feel a fair amount of internal resistance to going with a Lampizator because I just do not think that the company has found its stride yet and I do not want to deal with tweaking and continually upgrading any more.

9 - Whereas, the only time I have heard an Ayon product, the Spirit III amp I was so impressed that it burned a spot in my mind.

10 - I have once again made the most basic mistake in audio and gotten too into the equipment and technology and drifted away from the music. I think that this mistake and the combination my current hearing problems this is why I have not been listening as much lately. I should probably just buy an Ayon DAC and try to decide if the Stealth DAC is good enough at $8100 or should I spend an extra $1700 and buy the Stratos, which has a few more features, but is mostly a better version with all hand-picked and matched parts.

11 - The other question is should I just keep the Oppo BDP 103 or spend and additional $4700 and buy the tube equipped Ayon CD-T transport? Our should I buy an Ayon CD-3SX (essentially a Stealth DAC and CD-T transport in a player) for $8500, bank the money and be happy with just having "excellent" and not the best?

12 - Probably what I should do is put the Meinter DAC up for sale and see what I get and then decide on the tube CD player, DAC and transport front, although I think that I will probably go with the Ayon Stratos and possibly the $4,500 tubed Ayon CD-T transport because the extra $1700 for their best DAC is not that big a deal and I want to stop buying equipment, listen and focus on increasing my joy from music.

13 - The question now is, will my residual tweaky needs will lead me to buy the better DAC transport, although at this time I do not know how much better. Fortunately, USA Tubes a premier Ayon dealer, has a 30 day money back guarantee on all Ayon products

14 - Once again, I would love and value any suggestions."
______

Wow, if I was the best pro audio dealer of the entire globe (I'm not, and have zero experience with any of the audio products mentioned); I might suggest (#14) what you said in your own words from your own listening experience in quotes #1 and #2 above.

Basically, from all the other quotes it seems to me that there is some great contradiction with your best quotes; #1 and 2.

The other quotes that from my reading seems to coincide with #1 and 2 are: #5, #6 and #12 (the highlights).

The only thing I can do is what I just did. :b ...To the best of my own comprehension.

Wow, I have never had one of my posts analyzed with this much detail. That took a lot of time and thought. Thank you.

 

[Mobiusman]

Russ is going to sell all his audio gear and start streaming eBooks. ...For free: https://store.kobobooks.com/en-ca/p/free-ebooks

Bravo. BTW, how do I stream trees?

 

[NorthStar]

Bravo. BTW, how do I stream trees?

Trees? :b It was a way of speech.

 

[Mobiusman]

In twenty years most of us will have gelatin ears. :b

Ok, we have to go with Russ here; it's about him, his next decision, his music lifestyle. It is impossible for us to implant ourselves in his body and mind.
We all follow our own musical journey and it can vary a lot; from using several music mediums, to using what we have already collected in the last fifty years...more or less, to jumping with streaming (it's good for new world music discoveries...excellent), to ultra hi-end systems like Russ have (and many more people here who are reading WBF, and their members), to humble servitors like I who also use all music mediums from yesterday and today (I have to confess though; I too am a romantic and old fashion music lover), to the new kids on the block.

Sincerely it's all good. There is no other person that knows best than Russ himself. It is his life, his hands, fingers, heart, ears, soul, desires, ...journey into his own zone of comfort, today, and only today...one single day @ a time when the most importance of life is to be in the music moment of the present fully immersed and deeply emotionally involved. And it just don't matter if is from tapes, albums, compact discs, super audio CDs, music streaming, hi-res audio files downloading, ...all that jazz.
Live in the moment, in the each there...with all your heart, desires, most comfortable/relaxing/peaceful/satisfaction guarantee...and nothing else.
There are 7.35 billion different lifestyles right now on our planet, and only one of them is our own. And that's the best one.

Thank you. It is wonderful when someone understands your personal idiosyncracsies.

 

[Mobiusman]

Russ,

From what I understand, your hesitation comes mostly from the fact that you like Spectral, and own their other products, and to go with a stand-alone DAC would require you to investigate different brands and products, which can be time/money consuming.

So, my suggestion would be to keep the Spectral CD player, enjoy it, and add a second digital source, at a lower cost, just to see how you "feel" about the whole streaming/computer audio thing. There are all-in-one boxes out there that do a bang up job, specially as a second source, like the Linn boxes, the new Aurender A10 or the Auralic Altair. They all have a DAC and a streamer built-in, so all you need to do is hook them up to your pre. That way, you can get both worlds, and proceed to investigate a high-end alternative for your main digital source at a more leisurely pace.

We've found out that, even with folks with sizeable collections of CDs, they've been able to quickly move away from them, with the help of Tidal ($20/month service). In the end, they've only need to rip the CDs that are not available there.

I think this is the least disruptive, and most "fun" solution for you in the near term...


cheers,
alex

Alex,

What you have recommended is where I was when I put down the deposit on the SDR 4000SV - Make my CD playback the best it can be. One thing people may be missing with regard to the Spectral SDR 4000SV, is that it is not just playing back bits. Johnson has included some proprietary signal enhancing circuitry in the SDT 4000SV so that all Red Book is played back as if it is HD CD. Whatever the reason, it is somewhat magical.

 

[Mobiusman]

Poor Russ! 4 days and 215 posts ago he was looking for affirmation that he should buy the Spectral CD player he really, really wanted. He was only looking for a few people to tell him it was a good idea so he could go get it with a clear conscience.

Frank you apparently know me too well. However, the real answer is that I probably want the Spectral and a tube DAC. However, after all of this intellectual stuff, it still comes down to can I hear the left channel and if not, what will still put a smile on my aging face?

 

[Mobiusman]

Russ, if you're not in a rush, PS Audio is coming out with a new transport that will play all formats.

Here's a thread on their website:

http://www.psaudio.com/forum/pwt-transport-topics/sacd-playback-transport/

Thanks it sounds like something worth investigating.

 

[Mobiusman]

Hi Russ,

On post#37, I have nothing to offer on the Ayon CD-T transport or the Ayon Stratos dac. But it made me wonder if this combination sounds close to the Spectral 4000SV?

Sam

Same thoughts I was having. May goto AZ to audition on my way to visit the WBF supreme leader.

 

[Mobiusman]

Trees? :b It was a way of speech.

Purely my feeble attempt at a joke

 

[bonzo75]

You said it all - how can you recommend to people who probably are just browser and MSoffice users to go in such systems? Who will teach them all these small details?

I envy those who are experts in IT or have sons or friends that took care of their computer audio systems. I am a proficient user of computers, Labview, virtual instruments, but have been fighting for the last two days to install an audiophile NAS - Synology 416j with RED WD 4T disks. I read a few threads at several sites, it looked quite simple- I installed DSM, Java8 and then when installing miminserver it asks to upgrade Java8 and aborts installation. Dead lock, there is no upgrade to Java8. Those who are considering a computer audio NAS please see this interesting page http://minimserver.com/install-synology.html- it looked really simple!

Micro, you are an audio busybody and try doing stuff one your own, and invite these issues, and then try solving them. That is YOUR choice of lifestyle. If I wanted, I could order an Auralic Aries or Aurender, and the dealer would come here and set up everything himself, and hand me the ipad and I would be streaming away. These are easy to install with phone help as well. Same with CAPS, build it yourself or buy a completed version.

With the SGM that Bill used, they can access it over the internet and do all updates for software etc over the web, without the user having to intervene. It is made for plug and play service. Like with good things in our hobby, you can get a ready set up version or forever toy with it yourself version.

 

[NorthStar]

Alex,

What you have recommended is where I was when I put down the deposit on the SDR 4000SV - Make my CD playback the best it can be. One thing people may be missing with regard to the Spectral SDR 4000SV, is that it is not just playing back bits. Johnson has included some proprietary signal enhancing circuitry in the SDR 4000SV so that all Red Book is played back as if it is HD CD. Whatever the reason, it is somewhat magical.

I didn't miss that.

Features
- Exclusive HDCD'!' 'long Filter' high performance decoding software
- Digital Filter: 8x oversampling, 56 bit math 64 bit accumulator HDCD
____

The rest of the Features:
- Custom 20 bit balanced DACs with fully disaete
- Class A high current summation amplifiers.
- Spectralock 2 .... ultra-low jitter master dock reference.
- All discrete wideband topology totally eliminates integrated circuits from the analog signal path.
- Discrete passive equalization is individually tuned.
- High speed, Class A SHHA G3 line molule output section derived from DMC-30SV preamplifier.
- Independent ultra-isolated 'Floating Power' supplies for all nine player sub-systems.
- Better than one part per million data precision.
- UltraDrive custom built mil-spec avionics optical drive.
- Ultra-premium construction beltless design.
- Extended cycle life and precision glass optics laser.
- Fully modular drive packaging accommodates
- Full field servicing and updating.
______

Digital Systems Specifications
D/A Conversion: Four custom 24 bit DACs in double balanced configuration
_______

Do you notice what I noticed in the D/A conversion...DACs? ...Most likely a printing error in the "Feature" DAC line. ..."20 bit" is actually 24 bit, and "disaete" is actually discrete.
? http://www.moremusic.nl/spectral/SDR-4000SV.html
_______

Regarding how to stream trees; I did get it. ...eBooks.

 

[mullard88]

On post #233, I think it just made the Spctral 4000SV a must audition for me.