Sounds like very sophisticated and slick SW. Reading Bob Katz testimonial sounds like great SW. Thanks.
Jbl 4367
- Thread starter dallasjustice
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Sounds like very sophisticated and slick SW. Reading Bob Katz testimonial sounds like great SW. Thanks.
Well, it's proven again beyond all possible doubt by the gentleman: the unaided ears in sighted listening without any comparisons are way, way more sensitive than any measuring instrument could possibly ever be. I have been around audio systems for more decades than I care to admit. But, I can still only dream in my ultimate fantasies about one day having ears so sensitive and sophisticated that I can spot inferior capacitors just from my listening to one device in an unfamiliar system in an unfamiliar room! And, at a show where the product in question was not even being demonstrated! I am utterly in awe.
I get being able to hear a difference in caps in xovers. I've heard it building DIY speakers some 30+ years back and I heard it with my very recent upgrade (came in kit form so more than caps in reality). But to be able to specifically pick out a cap signature sound in an unfamiliar setting and mixed components to be frank is quite questionable. It its verifiably true, you have better ears than most.
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There's no doubt cheap MKP/MKT caps have a distinct effect on the sound of anything they are used in, whether it's coupling/output caps in tube gear or passive speaker crossovers. I've experimented with both and they smooth out detail while adding grain. Better specimens like Mundorf Supreme are more neutral and much less grainy than, say Solen MKP, but definitely not on the level of metal foil caps, especially copper foil caps.
It's usually pretty easy to switch out a cap in series with the mid or tweeter and the results are usually very obvious, so this is an area that is quite easy to experiment with if you're open minded enough to give it a try.
It's usually pretty easy to switch out a cap in series with the mid or tweeter and the results are usually very obvious, so this is an area that is quite easy to experiment with if you're open minded enough to give it a try.
Here is another listening test which compares various capacitors. The test results indicated that listeners couldn't distinguish any of the caps. It was noted that many listeners preferred the cap with the most distortion. Here are the questions the researchers sought to answer.
The listeners were University sound recording students. For those you want to read more:
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=15817
The listeners were University sound recording students. For those you want to read more:
http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=15817
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Not the least surprised but once the listener is told .. then ... perception is reawakened and sharpened ...
I guess Wilson, Rockport, Magico <enter your favorite high end speaker mfr. here> are wasting their money on exotic caps then...
You forgot JBL - they are using capacitors biased with batteries in their top speakers.
They aren't. Not for a second. I would venture however that if we had access to their real BOM, we would see it is a small fraction of the speakers MSRP. OTOH it ticks all the right checkboxes on their market segment. One of the best speakers currently on the market, one competitive with any of the most heralded brands, Vivid, is doing rather well without exotic caps. I hope they don't decide to use those "superior" caps and crossover parts because we all know such move will be accompanied with a substantial increase in price. Then again the market has proven itself quite tolerant of such.
More reasons for some to seriously audition the 4367
and perhaps the M2 SystemThe paper is not freely available, if you want to use it to support your views, please supply data or properly summarize it.
Unfortunately this happens with 99% of the objective debates - most posters have no access to the sources and post on other people interpretations, not on the source facts.
I suppose the bold, escaped your attention... what more should he say?
No it did not escape my attention. But unless we have the details about the conditions is which the study was carried the conclusions are meaningless.
Usually I read more than the abstract in a paper before debating on it...
TAD uses something that's audiophile grade, so does Magico, Rockport has custom capacitors (obviously audiophile grade), and many others. All of which that I've heard sound more refined especially Magico whom also uses flat wire inductors.
i just found this and did actually read it and i want my 10 minutes back mr humble hifi.
this guy rates the cap on a 1-12 scale.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
*** correction ... 1-15 scale ***
this guy rates the cap on a 1-12 scale.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
*** correction ... 1-15 scale ***
I find ironic that some audio websites let go of cap experts. ...I thought this hobby was about learning?
Get Mike back.
Get Mike back.
The paper deals with mic preamp listening tests and a variety of caps. The listeners weren't able to discriminate with the exception of one cap comparison. I'm not sure how relevant these types of caps are to loudspeaker crossovers. The following is the only part of the test where listeners could reliably distinguish.
As for JBL's DC biased caps, the study's listeners couldn't distinguish biased caps from unbiased caps, with the exception of one extremely high distortion cap.
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