KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

[christensenleif@msn.com]

of the acceptable small speakers I´ve heard I think some An UK and Living Voice OBX? are shockingly good

 

[morricab]

Brad,

The YG Carmel 2 can't play loud. That's a fact. It's a 2-way, with tiny drivers, in a small, sealed enclosure. You gotta be intellectually dishonest to try and compare that to a bigger speaker, with much bigger drivers like the one you were showing.
But its strengths lie elsewhere. The lack of distortion in both cabinet and drivers allow for the exceptional micro dynamics and gorgeous purity of timbre. That's why the speakers will really have no sound of its own, and will take the sound of downstream components. Keith had this speaker at his place many moons ago with a suitable amp, and he was struck by exactly those two factors, purity and micro dynamics.
It is definitely not a speaker for everybody, and even I, a dealer, don't recommend it unless I know for certain that it is exactly what the person needs.

Fair enough. What didn't Keith like about it then?

 

[morricab]

of the acceptable small speakers I´ve heard I think some An UK and Living Voice OBX? are shockingly good

Agree completely...great small floorstander. If I absolutely couldn't keep my horns and had to go with something that size it would be at the top of my list. Kevin Scott is a great speaker designer.

 

[Tango]

Not sure what you want to imply...

I feel that Keith was being indirect. And I was pointing where it sounded wrong in the video.

 

[morricab]

I feel that Keith was being indirect. And I was pointing where it sounded wrong in the video.

Correct me if I am wrong but don't you use your huge horns without ANY bass?

And, I gave my honest opinion that it didn't sound quite right. However, other videos and hearing basically the same system live in Munich gives a completely different take on the sound. If my wife would allow such large speakers I would probably have a pair of Symphonias in the house as my end game speaker.

 

[ddk]

Correct me if I am wrong but don't you use your huge horns without ANY bass?

And, I gave my honest opinion that it didn't sound quite right. However, other videos and hearing basically the same system live in Munich gives a completely different take on the sound. If my wife would allow such large speakers I would probably have a pair of Symphonias in the house as my end game speaker.

Without any bass isn't right Brad, he's not using subs for low bass which is a very different thing. Also 40-50hz from large horn speaker has a completely unique quality compared the same frequency from small box, it's not apples to apples here. On top of all this there's the room to consider when it comes to bass quality you can't just go by numbers.

david

 

[Tango]

Correct me if I am wrong but don't you use your huge horns without ANY bass?

And, I gave my honest opinion that it didn't sound quite right. However, other videos and hearing basically the same system live in Munich gives a completely different take on the sound. If my wife would allow such large speakers I would probably have a pair of Symphonias in the house as my end game speaker.

So your answer to the question is this is how the Symphonias sound in actual.

I have no problem people commenting the sound of my system and how suck the Cessaros or my system are when I post my video. You seem a little jumpy when comments are not in favor of the product you represent.

 

[ddk]

Without any bass isn't right Brad, he's not using subs for low bass which is a very different thing. Also 40-50hz from large horn speaker has a completely unique quality compared the same frequency from small box, it's not apples to apples here. On top of all this there's the room to consider when it comes to bass quality you can't just go by numbers.

david

On top of everything else given Tang's electronics and front end his bass quality and experience of reality is completely on a different level than most people. Would he get more with a pair of right subwoofers, yes but what he has is already exceptional.

david

 

[Folsom]

One of the biggest problems going toward the "pro" direction is that you must simultaneously seek how to achieve good tone and body at the same time. Sad fact is most speaker designed with high capabilities tend to sound really awful paired up with most gear and associated pieces of a stereo. And some manufactures go looking in weird places to solve this, and may end up with something that's really a huge compromise.

And David, let's be realistic, we all know everything Tang says is bassless.

 

[KeithR]

Keith, you should know better than this...I get around quite a bit in the audio world and my opinions are largely not shaped by shows. However, when a brand does really well at a show I definitely take notice because it is quite rare. You are assuming a lot that isn't true.

Fine, then perhaps just post direct demos you've had on this speaker thread. I don't value show reports for comparison - i've even caveated this myself numerous times and try to follow-up with direct demos. If its quite rare, then I'm sure you will agree with me so its not necessary to take pot shots on Devore, YG, etc. which you've never heard under optimized conditions.

This is why I value/respect your opinion on Boenicke but not Devore.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

my system didn´t really lock in until the last octave was reproduced by horns too.....

 

[morricab]

So your answer to the question is this is how the Symphonias sound in actual.

I have no problem people commenting the sound of my system and how suck the Cessaros or my system are when I post my video. You seem a little jumpy when comments are not in favor of the product you represent.

Not at all, I readily admitted that particular set of recordings was subpar...maybe you missed that admission?

 

[morricab]

my system didn´t really lock in until the last octave was reproduced by horns too.....

I tried to use a sub to get the last octave from my horns but never would it blend well. So, I live with 40hz...

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

the trick is to not be tempted to have it too loud..."it should not be heard, but felt"

 

[ack]

I think it comes down to both sensitivity and the drivers in a particular system resistance to thermal effects (note, there is no cure for this only mitigation). For example, if we take your speakers, the Q3, they have a reasonably high sensitivity of 90db; however, this is at 4 ohms, which really means 2 watts with a 2.83V drive signal (or 87db 8 ohm equivalent) and according to the German Stereoplay magazine quite hungry and tough fairly tough impedance. They also list the speaker's max volume level as 103dB, which is not super high and the speaker will for sure start to sound strained well below that level. They give the dynamics rating an 11, which is good but not outstanding, unlike the Naturalness they give a very strong 16 and resolution a strong 14. So, while your speaker is perhaps reasonably dynamic sounding for moderate volume levels it will not, IMO compete with a high sensitivity speaker of similar size and price. It might very well do other things better that are more important to you and others.

Interesting. Can we have a pointer to that information please?

 

[Exlibris]

Devore orangutan are better that all Odeon except the big 120k one. More natural, real, flowing, fast, transparent to recordings. Dynamikk I have heard one with silvercore amps and preferred donor l devore much more

I've heard Devore orangutan at three shows and though I wanted to like them (because of the efficiency), I didn't. Perhaps it was the electronics or the rooms but the systems sounded small and "woolly" -- intimate but kind of 'retro.' I've only ever heard one Odeon speaker -- the No. 28 and I really liked it. Even in a modest system it sounded much more real, more pleasant, and more involving than the 3 systems with the Devores.

 

[morricab]

Fine, then perhaps just post direct demos you've had on this speaker thread. I don't value show reports for comparison - i've even caveated this myself numerous times and try to follow-up with direct demos. If its quite rare, then I'm sure you will agree with me so its not necessary to take pot shots on Devore, YG, etc. which you've never heard under optimized conditions.

This is why I value/respect your opinion on Boenicke but not Devore.

So, now we should only comment on systems we hear in people's homes (as if those are somehow inherently better optimized) or dealers? Hearing something at a show is not a "direct demo"? Well, it is still a firsthand account and in my book direct. That said I don't draw ultimate conclusions that way BUT I will say if you have a 100K + system at a show and can't make it sound good then you are probably in the wrong business as either your gear choices or setup skills are inadequate. Not pot shots just relaying observations and information, if you want to discount show observations then please do so but I should be allowed to make them. I wasn't even talking about your Devores...never hear that model but it must be good to keep you from "stepping up".

 

[morricab]

Interesting. Can we have a pointer to that information please?

I googled Magico Q3 and found the information to the review in a link on the Magico site.

 

[bonzo75]

I've heard Devore orangutan at three shows and though I wanted to like them (because of the efficiency), I didn't. Perhaps it was the electronics or the rooms but the systems sounded small and "woolly" -- intimate but kind of 'retro.' I've only ever heard one Odeon speaker -- the No. 28 and I really liked it. Even in a modest system it sounded much more real, more pleasant, and more involving than the 3 systems with the Devores.

This is why you should never hear at a show. I am not saying I liked the ones in Munich at all

 

[morricab]

I've heard Devore orangutan at three shows and though I wanted to like them (because of the efficiency), I didn't. Perhaps it was the electronics or the rooms but the systems sounded small and "woolly" -- intimate but kind of 'retro.' I've only ever heard one Odeon speaker -- the No. 28 and I really liked it. Even in a modest system it sounded much more real, more pleasant, and more involving than the 3 systems with the Devores.

Did you buy the 28s?