KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

[christensenleif@msn.com]

the purple Cessaros I heard in Munich 2018 were terrible....honky plastic resonnant screechy horns
I very much recognized the AG Trio horn characteristics
Autotech JMLC full rollbacks are in another league....they´re thick, heavy. non resonnant and extremely solid and well made

 

[KeithR]

That is a slight misinterpretation. The year long search had no proper audition of a proper horn, in fact the thread showed how difficult it was to audition one

This isn't true - I heard Duo XDs on Nagra 300b amps in London for two hours. For which you cancelled on your subsequent audition

I fully admit I heard the Tune Audio Animas under show conditions - but the Tunes had too many issues for me to consider further. What blew me away at the show was the Thrax system.

I was never able to procure a Cessaro demo (the distributor cancelled on me) and didn't care to do so for the Acapella.

In a week, hoping to visit Pitch Perfect Audio to hear Klangfilm Eurodyns, Auditorium 23 Cinema Hommage, and Shindo on the more vintage front at my Devore dealer.

 

[morricab]

So, you stay with Devores because nothing at up to 3-4x the price was better? Perhaps your Devores sound so different from most other speakers that you have just become conditioned to that particular sound?

A couple hours with the Duo XDs and with Nagra 300b amps is an ok demo but I was under the impression that it was good enough to warrant a followup, no?

 

[bonzo75]

Devore orangutan and excellent and difficult to beat except by very good horns or SOTA speakers well set up. As are tannoy. For a compromise speaker these see both excellent until you can get your act really spot on

 

[Tango]

In a week, hoping to visit Pitch Perfect Audio to hear Klangfilm Eurodyns, Auditorium 23 Cinema Hommage, and Shindo on the more vintage front at my Devore dealer.

I will greatly appreciate if you were to give impression on these speakers.

 

[morricab]

Devore orangutan and excellent and difficult to beat except by very good horns or SOTA speakers well set up. As are tannoy. For a compromise speaker these see both excellent until you can get your act really spot on

He doesn't have that Devore and seemed not to want to consider it.

 

[KeithR]

Hey Brad, do you think this video post by Jana using the binaural recording setup is an accurate representation of Aries?

 

[morricab]

This isn't true - I heard Duo XDs on Nagra 300b amps in London for two hours. For which you cancelled on your subsequent audition

I fully admit I heard the Tune Audio Animas under show conditions - but the Tunes had too many issues for me to consider further. What blew me away at the show was the Thrax system.

I was never able to procure a Cessaro demo (the distributor cancelled on me) and didn't care to do so for the Acapella.

In a week, hoping to visit Pitch Perfect Audio to hear Klangfilm Eurodyns, Auditorium 23 Cinema Hommage, and Shindo on the more vintage front at my Devore dealer.

I don't think the "new" old horn speakers will float your boat given what you have posted thus far...could be wrong but they will be most likely "special" and perhaps too flawed in some ways for you to appreciate their strengths enough to buy. Pity there are no Odeon or Dynamikks! dealers near you...to my ears they are right balance of horn and non-horn traits with low coloration and very good dynamics without the real estate of big horns.

 

[bonzo75]

Devore orangutan are better that all Odeon except the big 120k one. More natural, real, flowing, fast, transparent to recordings. Dynamikk I have heard one with silvercore amps and preferred donor l devore much more

 

[bonzo75]

He doesn't have that Devore and seemed not to want to consider it.

Yes he has different music tastes but that's why they make different models

 

[morricab]

Devore orangutan are better that all Odeon except the big 120k one. More natural, real, flowing, fast, transparent to recordings. Dynamikk I have heard one with silvercore amps and preferred donor l devore much more

Hahahahahahahahahahaha...please

 

[morricab]

Hey Brad, do you think this video post by Jana using the binaural recording setup is an accurate representation of Aries?

Sounds nice but quite mid forward. A binaural recording on a stereo setup probably won't come out quite right I would think. I think what Stavros posted after from the Munich show is more representative. I only trust recordings that I make .

 

[morricab]

Yes he has different music tastes but that's why they make different models

Yes, obviously, but you brought the speaker up again, not I...

 

[morricab]

Hey Brad, do you think this video post by Jana using the binaural recording setup is an accurate representation of Aries?

Also, seems too far away... I would not be more than 3.5-4 meters away.

 

[bonzo75]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha...please

Like way superior. Odeon is rated only in one corner of Switzerland

 

[morricab]

Like way superior. Odeon is rated only in one corner of Switzerland

Like "no way" superior...

 

[bonzo75]

Like "no way" superior...

Can you please state outside Munich where you have heard devore, and with which amps?

 

[Tango]

Hey Brad, do you think this video post by Jana using the binaural recording setup is an accurate representation of Aries?

The bass. The woooosh?

 

[morricab]

Could you then define what you mean by "low sensitivity speakers"? I have heard systems that I would describe as very dynamic which have 90 dB speakers and pretty big amplifiers. Perhaps my idea of dynamics is different from yours. How does one measure whether or not a speaker is dynamic?

I think it comes down to both sensitivity and the drivers in a particular system resistance to thermal effects (note, there is no cure for this only mitigation). For example, if we take your speakers, the Q3, they have a reasonably high sensitivity of 90db; however, this is at 4 ohms, which really means 2 watts with a 2.83V drive signal (or 87db 8 ohm equivalent) and according to the German Stereoplay magazine quite hungry and tough fairly tough impedance. They also list the speaker's max volume level as 103dB, which is not super high and the speaker will for sure start to sound strained well below that level. They give the dynamics rating an 11, which is good but not outstanding, unlike the Naturalness they give a very strong 16 and resolution a strong 14. So, while your speaker is perhaps reasonably dynamic sounding for moderate volume levels it will not, IMO compete with a high sensitivity speaker of similar size and price. It might very well do other things better that are more important to you and others.

So, I would say probably around 90db as a baseline but a true 90db with at least 20db headroom on that 2.83V output (so a peak of at least 110db). This would then suggest that the coils and motor can deal with heat effectively and/or not too much is being lost in the crossover (another big factor for losing sensitivity). Below 90db the speaker would have to have a VERY robust motor and cooling but this is just not normally seen in non-pro drivers. If that is the case; however, then I guess a low sensitivity speaker could do pretty good dynamics...but probably still fall behind the better high sensitivity speakers, horn or not horn.

As an example of a mid-sensitivity speaker that won't compress badly at spirited listening levels, take our Dynamikks Athos 10. This speaker is rated 92db/watt and is basically a min impedance of around 6 ohms (so a true 8 ohm rated speaker). The pro-drivers it uses can do up to about 120db (the woofer can handle program power to 1200 watts and continuous 600 watts...the coax is padded down and normally at 97db and will handle 500W program power on the mid), so at 70-100db (a reasonable dynamic range at home) the system will simply not struggle with this nor exhibit a large amount of dyanmic drop. This was easily heard at our recent show compared to most of the other exhibits, where they did fine as long as not pushed or asked to do very wide dynamic recordings at near realistic levels.

There was also a 30K (CHF in Switzerland) YG Carmel 2 speaker on display at the show. Really not a dynamic sounding speaker...pretty and pleasant sounding (although the midbass was AWOL too) but could not deliver punch or drive.

I have heard good dynamics from low sensitivity electrostatic speakers but they don't get hot so thermal compression is not a problem...however dynamic compression is. So, they would work great dynamically...until they didn't and basically just refused to get louder. This meant they were restricted to lower mid volume levels and then they had great micro and decent macro dynamics.

 

[morricab]

Can you please state outside Munich where you have heard devore, and with which amps?

I haven't but by their own admission the Devore Orangutang Reference is superior in everyway to the basic one and it was not stellar at Munich...Odeon sounds good most of the time at Munich...