KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

[KeithR]

A very interesting report, Keith. Does this mean you have illuminated Gamut from consideration?

Sorry, good point! Please see the edited version now.

 

[DaveyF]

Not grammar Davey, spelling. Or more correctly, misspelling.

Marc, you want to be the spelling police? lol.
Ok, now on with the program..

 

[spiritofmusic]

Or "programme" as we spell it this side of The Pond.

You say "tomato", we say "red, thin-skinned fruit".

 

[DaveyF]

tomato, tomaato, potato, potaato. Just let's call the whole thing off!

 

[the sound of Tao]

Seriously guys, keep this up and next thing we’ll have mobile hyperbole testing, full body text searches and maybe they’ll even have to use the punctuation probe!!!

 

[KeithR]

The S5 Mk2's which i'm most familiar with are also very coherent sounding. The S Mk2 series has benefited from years of ongoing development, and trickle-down technology from the M series. And although Magico don't make their own drivers, they're designed in-house and made to Magico's specifications. Whilst in the case of the M series tweeters, a lot of the machining is done in-house. I guess it comes down to a matter of personal taste.

I preferred my Devores to the S5 a few years ago, so not a consideration. I do not find them lively enough for my taste. Thanks

 

[Al M.]

I preferred my Devores to the S5 a few years ago, so not a consideration. I do not find them lively enough for my taste. Thanks

Magico speakers can sound very lively with the right amplification. With amplification that is less optimal, not so much.

This contrasts with my speakers, and yours possibly too, which always sound lively almost no matter what the amplification -- even though on some amps they sound more lively than on others, you would really have to put work into getting them to sound not lively at all.

Yet while you have not heard Magicos sound lively, it would be wrong to assume that this is an intrinsic property of the speakers.

 

[KeithR]

Getting back on topic:

I heard the Wilson Sasha DAW vs. the YG Sonja in the same room. I am formulating my final thoughts on the audition, but it was illuminating

 

[Al M.]

Getting back on topic:

I heard the Wilson Sasha DAW vs. the YG Sonja in the same room. I am formulating my final thoughts on the audition, but it was illuminating

Look forward to your thoughts on eliminating one for the other

 

[C.A.P]

I too am interested in the comparison. I like the Focal tweeter and the Wilson's with them . That being said the DAW was amazing

 

[Bodhi]

I preferred my Devores to the S5 a few years ago, so not a consideration. I do not find them lively enough for my taste. Thanks

That's fair enough. I also like the sound of the Devore Orangutans. They sounds similar to AN speakers, though with better bass & are on the musical side. And like the AN speakers, they have the advantage of high efficiency which opens up more amplification options, incl: tubes. So I completely get your preference. Al pretty much echo'd my thoughts on the Magico's, so i'll just leave it there so as to not derail the thread.

 

[bonzo75]

That's fair enough. I also like the sound of the Devore Orangutans. They sounds similar to AN speakers, though with better bass & are on the musical side. And like the AN speakers, they have the advantage of high efficiency which opens up more amplification options, incl: tubes. So I completely get your preference. Al pretty much echo'd my thoughts on the Magico's, so i'll just leave it there so as to not derail the thread.

Hi, I remember you had mentioned the orangutans to me in a PM on audionirvana. I didn't know them then. I ignored them cause I thought they sounded like AN. But now I am glad I heard them because I really liked them and they are my favorite backups to big horns.

 

[Bodhi]

Hi, I remember you had mentioned the orangutans to me in a PM on audionirvana. I didn't know them then. I ignored them cause I thought they sounded like AN. But now I am glad I heard them because I really liked them and they are my favorite backups to big horns.

I knew you'd like them. The AN speakers are a bit too laid back and polite for my tastes. The Orangutans get the balance just about right, and the new Orangutan O/Ref apparently nails it.

 

[tima]

The Alexia 1 was their least good speaker. Incoherent and boomy sum it up perfectly. The Sasha 2 is way superior..

squirrels

I've heard Alexias many times - sorry, but I find them incoherent with boomy bass, and not to mention difficult to drive. Based on my preliminary Sasha DAW audition in November, I would pay more for new DAWs.

I'll aver the Alexias you heard were not set up correctly or took from a less-than-time-accurate source. The Alexia 2 is superbly coherent. The physical changes to the Sasha DAW from the Sasha 2 are almost identical to those between the Alexia 1 and 2.


...since this is an opinion thread, etc.

 

[Mdp632]

Getting back on topic:

I heard the Wilson Sasha DAW vs. the YG Sonja in the same room. I am formulating my final thoughts on the audition, but it was illuminating

Looking forward to your impressions. Are the electronics/ front end the same ? Just switching speaker cables between the two speakers ?

 

[KeithR]

I get a chuckle that folks keep recommending the Orangutans....as I actually picked the Gibbon X over them. Just a more modern sound with better bass in my view that is more aligned with my music preferences. And since super low powered amps aren't my cup of tea, the Xs were a perfect decision three years ago.

But moving onward to the big Wilson vs. YG demo (at SoCal dealer Alma Music & Audio in SD)

First, this is a large room folks - like 30' x 20' at least. The Sonjas might have been at an advantage probably just based on that as the Alexia 2 is more likely the perfect speaker for that room. However, the Sasha DAW wasn't impotent in the bass or anything. I auditioned the Sasha DAW and Sonja on digital only - MSB Reference dac w/ passive preamp module directly to ARC Ref 160m amps. I'm an ARC fan with my Ref 75SE so its a sound I like (modern ARC, not ss-ARC from the 80s-10s). And it would naturally be what I would want to consider with the Wilson. On the Sonja, I had the Dagostino Momentums inserted - and before everyone goes crazy, this is totally the right thing to do because:

1) I have heard the 160s on YG before while demoing MSB options and felt they needed more power/current
2) with YG I would be purchasing an SS amp, likely high power as discussed earlier in the thread, as large power tubes aren't for me

Both speakers were placed in positions optimized for their respective designs (ported vs sealed bass, etc).

The Sasha DAWs had a very nice, warm sound as evidenced on Jason Isbell, Blake Mills, and other such americana tracks that I demo with. Instruments really had a nice weight to them on strings and guitars in particular and played well in space. I did find the overall sound however somewhat subdued and lacking sparkle on cymbals (see Dzihan and Kamien's "Stiff Jazz"). I felt that while the bass was improved over previous Wilson designs, it was still a bit muddy in the upper bass region - I also heard this before at a different dealer. But what *was* good was that I didn't hear boominess like previous Wilsons. Bass seemed definitely a step up from my Devores at home in my room and articulation was decent, but not near what the Rockport demonstrated ported bass could do. Dynamics and soundstage are traditional Wilson hallmarks - and on the first point, seemed excellent in my audition. Soundstage was good, although as we shall see - nowhere near what the YG could do in the same room - it was definitely more "in between" the speakers (although certainly not small) but height seemed good. Coherency is definitely much better than prior Wilsons as i heard in my first Sasha DAW demo, although despite dynamics and tone, I still feel the Wilson is a slightly mechanical sounding speaker on electronica or even on simple piano music, which while timbre seemed nice - it just didn't feel quite right. (if you go hear a pair of 3.7s you'll understand, and, recall I've owned full range driver speakers for 6.5 years so have quite a lot of experience).

Turning to the YG was interesting - as I expected the contrast was going to be with a much brighter speaker and I didn't get that at all. I had the Carmel 2 in my room in fact and the tweeter could be a hair harsh on certain material. Not so with the new Sonja! In fact, the speakers totally disappeared in the soundstage and the continuousness and flow in the midrange was just sublime with excellent decay. Electronica was enveloping as it should be, but also with a very "alive" quality. Ironically, my Devores do something similar on the musical genre (and neither YG, Gamut, nor Devore use internal stuffing/cabinet deadening). The Sonja was smooth sounding without a hint of brightness. Your mind just totally relaxed into whatever music was being played. While I didn't really focus on transparency the entire audition, I subsequently did feel a lens had just been removed from the soundstage - but not in the traditional "i can hear a pin drop in seat 3, row 4 of the orchestra" sense. In fact, I didn't focus on detail my entire demo. On my piano torture track, the YG just seemed clear with no discontinuities or emphasis on parts of the frequency curve and didn't feel mechanical at all. I began to wonder if YGs superior on/off axis performance and unique crossover design was the culprit? Dynamics were a shade lower than the Wilson - particularly micro dynamics on Andrew Bird violin plucking - which I anticipated. I also like sealed bass from my Zu days and this was no different - just taut and articulate as hell on my string bass tracks.

So as you might surmise, the YG was a superior sound to my ears on that day - and considerably more expensive. I am looking forward to hearing the Hailey 2 next month to see if it replicates the enveloping sound of my Sonja audition. The Hailey 2 is also $10k more than the Sasha, so it still represents a steep premium. Coming back to the Gibbon Xs, I don't feel the Wilsons are an actionable improvement but that YG was definitely a jump to a different level that requires a significant amplifier investment (and possible system reconfiguration which i just optimized a year ago) and will likely be less dynamic. I plan on evaluating dynamics more closely in my next audition but both speakers seemed more dynamic than the Rockport (which I still feel was underpowered and would like to revisit with a different amp).

Next installment will be in a totally different arena: horns

 

[KeithR]

 

[KeithR]

 

[KeithR]

I'd also like to add one thing - I realize this exercise invites people who own these various speakers and feel different about how they sound. I can only say "horses for courses" and that we likely have different priorities. Speakers are *by far* the most personal of decisions in audio and I certainly respect anyone's choice.

 

[DaveC]

Nice report!

YG was sounding really nice with MSB at RMAF 2017 for sure... but they are pricey and not a lot of driver surface area. I think Verity shares some of the same character but are probably less demanding of the amplifier, maybe even a good match for a larger SET amp. Wilsons are excellent but not at the same level wrt driver integration and an overall cohesive sound.