KR 242, Elrog 300, px4, px25, EML and KR 5u4g, and KR 274b

[marslo]

Looks like you own the Duo Mezzo.... I'd be really curious to hear that or the Primo. I have heard various Duo basic incarnations over the years. Never the Mezzo or Primo.

Yes, since February I have Duo Mezzo XD.
Last year we spent a day in AG HQ together with my wife and we liked very much Mezzo, Trios with subs ( have no room for basshorns) desappointed us.
Pls be welcome if you decide to come to Poland one day, I live close to Poznan.

 

[Alrainbow]

You guys are killing me after reading this thread I bought a set of kr4 tubes
I am away for the holidays till turesday.
What I can add is the recti maters more than the output tubes. Think about what you guys posted
I have every tube posed about and recti not posted.
There is a Western electric 274b 1952 i have that sounds good and in some ways better than the tak I own.
I also own about 6 solid state recti as well. Has anyone tried any

 

[dctom]

Thank you for the Tube comparisons Greg Lee, Rob and Ked

The Lampizator GG is indeed a wondrous machine.
It is almost the digital equivalent of a turntable.
It has surprising tweaking potential for a digital product. It responds to, up-sampling (or not), isolation, tube rolling, streaming source etc.

I have a pretty good analogue set up, having been a vinyl die hard for 40 yrs. The Lampi runs it close when using high-res source material.

Eg. a piano’s lowest notes has more visceral growl, the percussive nature of piano is more evident on vinyl.

Even so I am more than happy with the digital SQ, it is much more convenient and I enjoy random play. Vinyl on the other hand (40 year old discs in some cases) has something which seems to transcend the digital in spite of the, sometimes, surface noise. I have an ultra sonic record cleaner which can get rid of most, however vinyl can succumb to surface imperfections. Some pressings, even new vinyl, are poor in terms of surface noise

Anyway I digress, have just received a pair of KR PX4 valves from Greg at G point, ordered on the strength of the shoot out.

Initial impressions are that they sound more natural, they have a higher output (approx. 18%) than the KR 2A3s my GG came with. I cannot say I was unhappy with the 2A3s but the PXs are preferable. They seem to give a bit more of everything, depth of stage, bottom end etc. I have not turned the volume down much because they are so easy to listen to.

Currently listening to Keith Jarrett’s Koln concert and it is peaking around 88db which I would normally find over the top, as I find it quite a strident recording.

 

[bonzo75]

Good to hear Dave. For those who don't know, his vinyl sweet up is a Kuzma xl4 with 4p, shelter harmony, lyra atlas, and ypsilon phono. So that's a good benchmark

 

[bonzo75]

Dave, is your vdh copper or platinum coil?

Btw, your PCM will get much better with the R2R, send it later for that upgrade and for the new clock. Also get the transformer as per Bill and my spec as that makes it quieter

 

[dctom]

Dave, is your vdh copper or platinum coil?

Btw, your PCM will get much better with the R2R, send it later for that upgrade and for the new clock. Also get the transformer as per Bill and my spec as that makes it quieter

Hi Ked the vdh has gold coils, XPG

http://www.vandenhul.com/products/phono/the-colibri

I did converse with Lukasz about the R2R and this is what he said.....

"The discrete resistor ladder is a new - old way of conversion. It is a kind of “gas lamp” technique of mechanical (almost) conversion of digits to analog. It was invented in the 50’s and later used in integrated chips like TDA1541A
MAny people believe that this is a better, more kosher way of doing it and prefer the R2R over integrated chips. We do it for those people.
Personally I know that well made R2R and well made chip bring THE SAME result and I hear no difference. MAybe the difference is 0,1 % of quality."

Can you tell me more about the transformer you have please.

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Ked the vdh has gold coils, XPG

http://www.vandenhul.com/products/phono/the-colibri

I did converse with Lukasz about the R2R and this is what he said.....

"The discrete resistor ladder is a new - old way of conversion. It is a kind of “gas lamp” technique of mechanical (almost) conversion of digits to analog. It was invented in the 50’s and later used in integrated chips like TDA1541A
MAny people believe that this is a better, more kosher way of doing it and prefer the R2R over integrated chips. We do it for those people.
Personally I know that well made R2R and well made chip bring THE SAME result and I hear no difference. MAybe the difference is 0,1 % of quality."

Can you tell me more about the transformer you have please.

Yes Lukasz is a minimalist and we get excited over more things than he does. But Bill and I both think it sounds better, and Greg's R2R dac sounded better than Robs non-ThE.

I don't know details about the transformer, just ask Greg to communicate to them to get it sorted as per Bill's and mine.

By Lukasz's logic we don't need the GG, the big 7 is sufficient. I think so too. I preferred my old big 7 with 101d replicas to everything I directly compared it with and therefore should have no requirement to up further. But hey...

 

[Jazzhead]

What's the new clocking scheme on the GG , any details ?

 

[dctom]

By Lukasz's logic we don't need the GG, the big 7 is sufficient. I think so too. I preferred my old big 7 with 101d replicas to everything I directly compared it with and therefore should have no requirement to up further. But hey...

Yep, we all suffer from that syndrome!!

 

[bonzo75]

Today I heard the special Lampi 45s, the px4, the px25, Elrog 300b, original WE 101d, original WE 104 in another system. Will write a report tomorrow in case anyone's interested

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Today I heard the special Lampi 45s, the px4, the px25, Elrog 300b, original WE 101d, original WE 104 in another system. Will write a report tomorrow in case anyone's interested

Lol. No - nobody gives a sh1t on this thread

How was this 104d?

 

[Alrainbow]

Now that I will be waiting for. The only tube I can add to that is the tak 300b
Please post

 

[bonzo75]

The choice between PX4/25 is clearly a gain play. The PX4s seem to be the best and safest choice for those who are buying blind. They do everything. Great for rock, classical, vocals, cello. They place the choir back behind the speakers wide across the room like it should be. Greg's DIY horns and Yamamoto are very high gain. The PX25 initially had a superb grip on the piano and the cello in Beethoven's cello sonata. On other tracks we were getting too much hardness so Greg reduced his preamp gain by inserting tubes 3db lower. Then the difference between PX25 and the PX4 dropped. So, in other words, please don't read here for advice on whether to buy 4 or 25. If you can't hear both, buy 4.

The Special EML Lampi Globe anniversary 45 did some things better...but only if you were critically listening, and had to write a review, and pick one of the two. Otherwise, they are so close, if you have one and don't want to spend on the other, don't. You are not losing out on any quality or drastic presentation differences that might suit your preferences. The 45 did highlight some of the individual instruments in large orchestral passages better.

In Greg's system the EML mesh 5u4g recti worked the best with all these tubes. It gave a slight air, and timing pause, while the special KR 5u4g sounded too aggressive and rushed. But then in some systems, the EML sounds too laid back. I would still take the KR as the safer bet and if it sounds too rushed, switch to EML. EML has more air.

The Elrogs do their own 300b magic but I don't seem to be a 300b fan. None has worked on me. I think if one has to spend on one output tube, it should be the PX4 or the special 45 depending on your budget and the 45 availability. Greg is in agreement like with last fortnight's rolling group. Bill's system will be worth confirming this in as it is a very different system - SS, big cone speakers.

Sujay, who reluctantly got into Lampi because he was dissuaded with digital, now has ended up with both PX4 and those special 45s in a balanced Big 7 and the KR 5u4g. Talk about beginners luck!

The 101d and 104 were not used in months and were taken out cold. Both have a warm, embracing feel, but more laid back and less dynamic than the modern valves. The 104 is more dynamic than the 101. What they had over the modern ones was a pause and time interval in the music, making the modern ones appear more rushed. They had a more traditional tubey sound.

 

[Audiocrack]

The choice between PX4/25 is clearly a gain play. The PX4s seem to be the best and safest choice for those who are buying blind. They do everything. Great for rock, classical, vocals, cello. They place the choir back behind the speakers wide across the room like it should be. Greg's DIY horns and Yamamoto are very high gain. The PX25 initially had a superb grip on the piano and the cello in Beethoven's cello sonata. On other tracks we were getting too much hardness so Greg reduced his preamp gain by inserting tubes 3db lower. Then the difference between PX25 and the PX4 dropped. So, in other words, please don't read here for advice on whether to buy 4 or 25. If you can't hear both, buy 4.

The Special EML Lampi Globe anniversary 45 did some things better...but only if you were critically listening, and had to write a review, and pick one of the two. Otherwise, they are so close, if you have one and don't want to spend on the other, don't. You are not losing out on any quality or drastic presentation differences that might suit your preferences. The 45 did highlight some of the individual instruments in large orchestral passages better.

In Greg's system the EML mesh 5u4g recti worked the best with all these tubes. It gave a slight air, and timing pause, while the special KR 5u4g sounded too aggressive and rushed. But then in some systems, the EML sounds too laid back. I would still take the KR as the safer bet and if it sounds too rushed, switch to EML. EML has more air.

The Elrogs do their own 300b magic but I don't seem to be a 300b fan. None has worked on me. I think if one has to spend on one output tube, it should be the PX4 or the special 45 depending on your budget and the 45 availability. Greg is in agreement like with last fortnight's rolling group. Bill's system will be worth confirming this in as it is a very different system - SS, big cone speakers.

Sujay, who reluctantly got into Lampi because he was dissuaded with digital, now has ended up with both PX4 and those special 45s in a balanced Big 7 and the KR 5u4g. Talk about beginners luck!

The 101d and 104 were not used in months and were taken out cold. Both have a warm, embracing feel, but more laid back and less dynamic than the modern valves. The 104 is more dynamic than the 101. What they had over the modern ones was a pause and time interval in the music, making the modern ones appear more rushed. They had a more traditional tubey sound.

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Ked. May I ask you the following:
- What is it exactly what you do not like about the (Elrog) 300b sound? In my Tidal LA system the Elrog sounded much, much better than the stock 101d tubes that Lukasz supplied.
- Have not tried yet the Emission Labs 6th anniversary 45 mesh globe tubes in my GG; in what way do they - in your view - better the 300b Elrogs?

 

[bonzo75]

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Ked. May I ask you the following:
- What is it exactly what you do not like about the (Elrog) 300b sound? In my Tidal LA system the Elrog sounded much, much better than the stock 101d tubes that Lukasz supplied.
- Have not tried yet the Emission Labs 6th anniversary 45 mesh globe tubes in my GG; in what way do they - in your view - better the 300b Elrogs?

Hi AC, Elrogs are probably better than the 101D replicas. I think all the above tubes are better than 101D replicas, which are still detail champs and dynamic. The Elrogs sounded better in the last system than this. They are immersive and involving, but have a color. They spotlit some instruments, which is good, but then PX4 was not losing anything to the Elrogs and was better on rock and cello. I think Elrog is a more of a change for certain flavor and mood type of tube rather than the main stock tube. FYI, I am voicing not only my thoughts but the group (4 of us last week, 2 yesterday) was in agreement on that. Also, I think Elrog sound better than the KR 300bs. Will verify this at Bill's.

I assume the Emission Labs are from the special run that Lampi commissioned? If yes, those are the ones I heard, and those sounded better in yesterday's system.

 

[bonzo75]

Marslo preferred the px4 to the special 45 in his system

 

[Audiocrack]

Hi AC, Elrogs are probably better than the 101D replicas. I think all the above tubes are better than 101D replicas, which are still detail champs and dynamic. The Elrogs sounded better in the last system than this. They are immersive and involving, but have a color. They spotlit some instruments, which is good, but then PX4 was not losing anything to the Elrogs and was better on rock and cello. I think Elrog is a more of a change for certain flavor and mood type of tube rather than the main stock tube. FYI, I am voicing not only my thoughts but the group (4 of us last week, 2 yesterday) was in agreement on that. Also, I think Elrog sound better than the KR 300bs. Will verify this at Bill's.

I assume the Emission Labs are from the special run that Lampi commissioned? If yes, those are the ones I heard, and those sounded better in yesterday's system.

I was indeed referring to the 45 tubes that Lukasz commissioned. Have not tried those in my GG yet but according to some they are (indeed) impressive.

 

[bonzo75]

I was indeed referring to the 45 tubes that Lukasz commissioned. Have not tried those in my GG yet but according to some they are (indeed) impressive.

Yes you should try those. If you like them, you probably won't need anything else. If you don't like them, or if they are too laid back in your system (I doubt they will be), suggest sell them and try Px4

 

[sujay]

I must admit, I was half expecting this conclusion. I do agree, both px4 and limited edition lampi 45s are very close. Although, I like the 45s more. It has more air, poise and balance. I think in my case, it's a gain issue between the two. The px4 sounds a little edgy in comparison. While personal preference, I just get the feeling that the 45s are a better match in the balanced version with all SS electronics. But I think I will keep both, swap them around and see if my conclusions are any different after the 45s have run in properly.

Cheers

Sujay

 

[bonzo75]

I must admit, I was half expecting this conclusion. I do agree, both px4 and limited edition lampi 45s are very close. Although, I like the 45s more. It has more air, poise and balance. I think in my case, it's a gain issue between the two. The px4 sounds a little edgy in comparison. While personal preference, I just get the feeling that the 45s are a better match in the balanced version with all SS electronics. But I think I will keep both, swap them around and see if my conclusions are any different after the 45s have run in properly.

Cheers

Sujay

I agree withe more air, poise and balance, but despite listening to them, I could still be satisfied with the PX4. I think the edginess has to do with a gain match. You have SS electronics, both systems we heard here were full valves.