I'm curious as to your positioning of these Graphite Cones under the chassis of the Horizon. Are you using three? And where are they placed relative to the existing feet on the unit? Thanks!
Lampizator announcement: launch of our all new TOTL HORIZON DAC
- Thread starter Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus
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steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
FWIW I use Center Stage footers under mine. Highly recommended but I’m biased as I represent the line
@Malcng My electronics are in a separate "closet", and aren't exposed to the sonic vibrations in my listening room. Do you think those graphite cones would have any effect in my situation?
I have two at the front just inside and very slightly back from the front feet and the other is central at the rear to the fore of the screw in the base at that point.
Can you write a little more about the differences between the Graphite Audio cones and the Nimbus? Have you tried the Vortex? Which rack are you using? Thanks!
I think quite possibly, yes. The reason being that I think it is more about draining internal energy away from the Horizon than it is about stopping vibrational energy getting in. My rack is very well designed to prevent energy transfer and the HRS footers construction would do similar. The combined effect was, with the benefit of hindsight, a little too warm and stodgy which I suspect is due to internal energy not escaping effectively from the Horizon. I found exactly similar results when I tried a HRS top plate on top of the Taiko Extreme as I had seen others do the same but, for me, the sound became somewhat cloudy and less precise and I much preferred it without.
Regarding the cones, I should say that the effect was slightly too pronounced in my setup with the cones alone and I preferred the result with the cones seated into the graphite cups.
I replaced the HRS footers underneath my CD transport with the cones and this gave quite a dramatic improvement in detail and clarity. Obviously, the transport generates quite a fair amount of internal vibrational energy and, once this was drained away more effectively using the cones, the level of improvement was significant.
I’m no expert and could be wrong, but that seems logical to me.
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The rack is by Bassoncontinuo - I forget the model name, but it’s one of the better ones in their line. They have quite detailed measurements and analysis by independent source to demonstrate the effectiveness of their design.
See my comment above about Nimbus footers. I bought them a long while back to use with a Chord Blu II and a Dave and they worked quite well back then. I have replaced the rack that I had then and the graphite cones work a lot better for me now. I’m no expert in this stuff and, in fact, it irritates me somewhat that all this kind of tinkering is necessary but being a perfectionist is what it is. I haven't tried anything else on the basis that I don’t enjoy trying these type of tweaks and, if it’s good enough for Lucasz, then it’s good enough for me.
I am using the graphite cones recommended by Lukasz as well—two in back and one in front. Huge improvement. They are very affordable and punch way above their weight. Highly recommended for anyone getting a Horizon. I compared them to more expensive isolation and they stayed. I am very interested in the Hifistay as well. They look excellent and Gollum uses them and he knows his stuff.
The graphite footers are indeed a great value and we've had a number of guys take them along with their new Horizons. For their cost they really can't be beat and hit way above their price point making them an easy recommendation.
I can also very strongly second the recommendation made by Steven Williams regarding the Critical Mass Systems, Center Stage footers. I've spent a good bit of time now with the Critical Mass Ultra TT footers under both the Horizon and Taiko Extreme in my listening parlor and I can attest that this pairing is magical...
We actually showed with Critical Mass for the first time last week as we demonstrated our Horizon DAC and Gulfstream server at the Florida Audio Expo and their addition to the system was very meaningful... so much so in fact that you can expect an announcement in the next couple of days concerning the optimization of this pairing!
Anyone with questions about either footers as an accompaniment to their Horizon or other LampizatOr products (or any products really) should feel free to contact me .
I can also very strongly second the recommendation made by Steven Williams regarding the Critical Mass Systems, Center Stage footers. I've spent a good bit of time now with the Critical Mass Ultra TT footers under both the Horizon and Taiko Extreme in my listening parlor and I can attest that this pairing is magical...
We actually showed with Critical Mass for the first time last week as we demonstrated our Horizon DAC and Gulfstream server at the Florida Audio Expo and their addition to the system was very meaningful... so much so in fact that you can expect an announcement in the next couple of days concerning the optimization of this pairing!
Anyone with questions about either footers as an accompaniment to their Horizon or other LampizatOr products (or any products really) should feel free to contact me .
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I've used now 3 different versions of Center Stage footers under my Extreme and Taiko DAC's (Pacific and now Horizon) and I can speak with some degree of experience when I say that the Ultra TT under the Extreme and Horizon is beyond anything digital I have ever heard
Alright, so I was about to pay for a set of graphite cones per recommendations here to compare to my HRS nimbus couplers which are paired with my HRS M3X2 shelves and HRS SXR rack, so call it a $20k 3 shelf rack including footers system at the moment.
Given I will be sticking with the top offering HRS shelves and rack, can anyone say that CM footers or graphite cone footers will outperform HRS nimbus couplers (which I currently use throughout) under the Horizon and/or Extreme on top of HRS shelves/rack? I ask as the $800+ price tag per CM TT footer is quite steep obviously.
A key question seems to me, how can footers independently perform regardless of the shelves and/or rack/floor upon which they are placed. This has to be sooo system independent. Or, I would love to be wrong, and it can be said that CM footers, regardless of shelf/rack/floor basis, will outperform any alternative under an Extreme or Horizon DAC? I am slightly skeptical, but I am absolutely open to being convinced. Or do I just need to go out all out on QSA per the latest here on the manufacturer threads?
Given I will be sticking with the top offering HRS shelves and rack, can anyone say that CM footers or graphite cone footers will outperform HRS nimbus couplers (which I currently use throughout) under the Horizon and/or Extreme on top of HRS shelves/rack? I ask as the $800+ price tag per CM TT footer is quite steep obviously.
A key question seems to me, how can footers independently perform regardless of the shelves and/or rack/floor upon which they are placed. This has to be sooo system independent. Or, I would love to be wrong, and it can be said that CM footers, regardless of shelf/rack/floor basis, will outperform any alternative under an Extreme or Horizon DAC? I am slightly skeptical, but I am absolutely open to being convinced. Or do I just need to go out all out on QSA per the latest here on the manufacturer threads?
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steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Center Stage footers were designed by Joe to perform on any surface. Some use wood, others metal and many stone but results are the same.I know Joe does not like to use with competing technology but FWIW I have sold CS footers to HRS users. As to how they compare against HRS Nimbus couplers I have no one that I know do that experiment. I can tell you that I have sold several sets of CS footers to Magico users of QPods and MPods all of whom told me the CS footers were superior. What strikes me as so uniquely different about this newest version of CS footers is that they are height adjustable and auto leveling which obviates the need for shims. But what astonished me more was that these new footers settle quicker than any other prior version. I found in my system they settled in 3-5 days and by day 7 the sound was superb. What Joe has done with these new footers is to add many more contact points than just the one which was in prior iterations. These multiple contact points seem to be a key factor as the sound is simply fabulous. In fact I would offer the thought that IMO this is the best product Joe has brought to market. If you want to save some money try the TD's which are the same as the TT but lack height adjustment and auto level.
I think you are in New Mexico ( I may be wrong) but I'd love to have you fly in for a day. I'll pick you up and take you back to my house for a listen and to compare. The other caveat is that people were having problems placing the CS feet under the Extreme due to the perforated bottom. With this new version and the multiple contact points, this problem IMO is gone. I have become so enamored of this new product that I have switched out the prior version of CS2M from my entire system and am now using all CS Ultra TT. But for me the absolute kicker to this new foot is how it sounds. As you know my entire system is sitting on CS footers. When the TT was released my interest was the Horizon and when I received my first set of Ultra TT I placed them under my Horizon while I had 76 other CS2M under the rest of my system. I did not expect that with al the other CS2M that I would ever hear a difference...boy was I wrong. That one set of Ultra TT under my Horizon produced the best sound I have ever heard digitally in my system. Everything from top to bottom was better. This new technology with multiple contact points convinced me and I next put a set under my Extreme and the sound was better still. Joe's footers are deeply based on The Second Law of Thermodynamics and yes they are pricey but in the great scheme of things they are simply magnificent. Let me know if you want to fly in for a day. I'd be happy to have you listen and come to your own conclusion. I know Fred ( LampiNA) became interested in CS when he was at my house with Lukasz last February. He liked them so much that he is showing now with all CS Footers under his electronics
Thank you for that very generous offer Steve. Much appreciated. I anticipate ultimately comparing the HRS Nimbus to the HRS Vortex to the CS Ultra TTs in my system starting with the Horizon then the Extreme. Looking forward to this. Definitely will keep my eyes open for any other comparisons in this regard especially if mated with HRS shelves/racks. Btw, very interesting how you guessed I was in New Mexico?!....I split my time between Santa Fe and the Bay Area.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
whenever you're in the Bay Area , it's a 40 minute flight from SFO to SNA. I can pick you up there and its a 20 minute drive to my house
To expand on what Steve said above, yes--the settling behavior of the new Ultras is vastly superior to that of the prior Center Stages. Specifically, I recall putting them in and hearing some positive attributes immediately such as midrange holography, but this was coupled with sonic anomalies on the top and bottom and a general sense of "confused sound" which lasted every bit of 5 days to settle out.
Don't get me wrong, once settled I could understand what the hype was about the Critical Mass footers made a huge difference under the Horizon and Taiko in my parlor. Dimensionality/holography, noise floor, midrange purity, micro-dynamic shading and just a general sense of rightness. I generally don't like getting involved with accessories, but it was such a natural compliment and Joe was such a pleasure to work with we decided to work together and build an association.
Fast forward a few months and Joe sent out a set of the Ultra TTs and TDS, which I was almost dreading putting into my system. Things had been sounding spectacular and I really didn't want to go through a week of settling in. To my very pleasant surprise though putting them in was an immediate improvement, better across the board and seeming to fully settle by later that night. The noise floor of my system was the lowest I've heard it which led to bass depths and textures I hadn't experienced and everything from top to bottom was just more focused, coherent, resolved and "right" no tipped up HiFi sound, but rather natural, balanced, organic and intoxicating.
The paring is a no-brainer and we're actually work on creating a specialized bundle with the LampizatOr DACs for the ultimate performance... stay tuned for details.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I found the TT’s right out of the box amazing. About an hour later the top end became so bright it burned a hole in my ear. The bottom end as always became loose and tubby. I knew thus from many sets in my system so I kept the music playing and went downstairs for Dinner. I came back an hour later to turn off the system for the day but much to my amazement the top end brightness was completely gone and by the next day the bottom end was tight, fast beyond what I’ve heard ever in my system By end of the following day I had little change as the feet had completely settled. I had a long talk with Joe to see if I was imagining things but he smiled and confirmed he heard the same. Like you I heard detail which I’ve just never heard ever in any system Joe told me that the noise floor in the new ultra series is virtually non existent and thus the increase detail. I’m a big believer in the brand and represent it Having now owned all 4 iterations of CS footers and LS series IMHO I think this new Ultra series is the best product Joe has brought to market. He also now has an Ultra series in his platforms
Just finished watching the WBF video below by Lukasz on the Horizon anniversary. It actually was really emotional to watch. A designer reflecting on his and his team's creation in the face of difficult expectations. Just one data point of the hundred, but the Horizon changed how I listen to music, period. I really don't envision listening to music without it. Your team's boldness and confidence measuring up to those bigger companies deserves acclaim that I hope you all can soak in and truly embrace the magnitude of your efforts.
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Indeed the Amber 3 changed my opinion of digital. The Pacifica and the Horizon confirmed it.
Footers are just another piece of the audio jigsaw. Graphite Audio Isolation Cones can be placed on all kind of surfaces, shelves, racks and the floor. The improvment and the final results will always be dependent on the entire system. That's the fun, isn't it?
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