LampizatOr Horizon - Tube Rolling Paradise

[takacs75]

Ive spent most of the day having swapped out the TFKN RGN 2004 for the Valvo G2504 each used with the just released TP Special Edition adapters for each tube

I have to rethink my comment about the effect of the new Taiko Router and DCD as I am now convinced that the ability to tame the sound of both these tubes happened with the addition of TP SE adapters before the Router/DCD was added to the system

By way of followup today the Valvo G2504 isa tube I love but as I said it is a monster of a tube and for me it was impossible to tame the feeling of just too much....excellent sound but somewhat too much. in my room. With the addition of the SE adapter for RGN2004, there was never an issue as I could pass the entire signal from the Horizon to my Lamm preamp and I could easily keep the gain at the level I typically listen. Heretofore I could not do this with the Valvo and previous adapter. It was like having a stick of dynamite up the backside of an angry bull and this prompted me to return to the RGN 2004...until today. The Valvo and new TP SE adapter fit like a glove and much to my pleasure I could do the same as I could with the RGN, specifically pass full signal and use my preamp at my usual listening level. If I used only the switch without router/DCD there was really no change in the sound suggesting to me that the mitigating factor in allowing this to happen is the TP SE adaptor.

I have no pony in the game but I really am amazed how t both of these adapters have allowed me to listen to my music at my typical levels.

At the end of the day, two superb rectifiers and 2 superb adapters and once again at identical levels the RGN2004 to me is more musical, with more air around the notes and more a sense of involvement, whereas the G2504 is a tube putting out more detail and filling the soundstage completely different than the RGN, yet I love them both.

I could not have done this without Laszlo's new SE adapters, a different one for each tube. To me these have become an essential part of my system along with his pure silver extruded single strand silver Star ground wire that goes from the rectifier to each c3g adapter and then is grounded to the Horizonn ground

It's been a fun experiment and I hope for those who have similar setups, that this helps.

I suspect that what we heard earlier with the previous adapters was distortion.Our ears are very sensitive for that kind of sound. Usually we perceive that as it was too loud, too much gain. With higher gain more distortion The new TP adapters distort the signal less. I am not an engineer, so I might be wrong

 

[steve williams]

@takacs75

Have you noticed the same when using the new special edition adaptors

 

[dminches]

I suspect that what we heard earlier with the previous adapters was distortion.Our ears are very sensitive for that kind of sound. Usually we perceive that as it was too loud, too much gain. With higher gain more distortion The new TP adapters distort the signal less. I am not an engineer, so I might be wrong

What would cause them to distort the signal less? The resistors used? The wire?

 

[takacs75]

What would cause them to distort the signal less? The resistors used? The wire?

The wire we use had a bigger effect than the resistor. We’ve experimented with different wires and different diameters. The internal shielding and grounding also lower the noise floor.

 

[takacs75]

@takacs75

Have you noticed the same when using the new special edition adaptors

Exactly the same

 

[steve williams]

good to know you have found what I did.....kudos to Tibor

 

[takacs75]

Our new RGN spec TP adapter at Posseidon dac world premiere.

 

[steve williams]

So here is my final evaluation of using the Taiko Router/DCD for the past 5 days at default filter using either the TFKN RGN2004 or Valvo G2504

As I have said so often, until I received Laszlo's Special Edition adapters for Valvo and RGN2004, I could not tame my system while using the Valvo G2504 to a place where I was able to keep my Horizon gain at 63 and as a result I went back to the TFKN RGN2004 . This with Laszlo's SE adaptor was open, airy, very dynamic and I was back to Horizon at 63 and my Lamm at detente 5 (my normal listening settings). Yesterday I wondered what would happen with Laszlo's adapter and the Valvo G2504 back as rectifier. Well at the end of the second day both of the tubes are superb but if I were to pick my favorite now as this was a also a true A-B-A test ( not blinded) hands down it is the Valvo. OMG I was now able to hear a true comparison as setting on Horizon and my Lamm were identical. The Valvo truly is a beast as it gets down to the lowest of octaves with little if any audible distortion. My demo for years has always remain that introduced to me at THE Show in Las Vegas close to 20 years ago by KeithR . Duende by Black Light Syndrome. Time between 20- 33 seconds. Today was the first time I heard this using tubes where there is so little if any distortion. The RGN2004 gets down there but not without some audible distortion at the very bottom most note

So once again even though I was also comparing Roon to XDMS I can say that with either tube in play Roon had a still very slight edge over XDMS but the overall BEST sound was indeed the Valvo. The amount of detail and the feeling of presence and the layering of the sound stage without distortion clearly returns top honors to the Valvo G2504 solid plate. However TP SE adapter is a must

 

[plasmod3]

Been observing all the comments here of late. The c3gs are quite amazing tubes and I am glad I brought it to the attention of the forum a few months back and everyone is enjoying them in their setup

I have rolled into the c3gs more than a yr ago and know those tubes inside out.

So far I have been able to further develop the roll and have come to a few more conclusions

The rectifier actually means little in my roll now. The back combination is most important. If you have a strong back a few things become apparent

1.The need to use expensive rectifiers and roll expensive rectifiers. I use a cheap Svetlana 5c3s now and it beats the previous combination. I have rolled about 60 different rectifiers in the horizon now and this conclusion came as a surprise to me. I can only say we have a better synergy in the back section now so much so it works amazingly well.
2. Gain issues and horizon volume control doesn't matter anymore where preamp volume control works very very well with no loss of dynamics while using my horizon at 50

The key is in the back section. C3gs is a great tube, the new combination is however more insightful. More details, more soundstage and slam. I think expensive rectifiers... at least on the horizon is probably no longer the viable solution it once was. Money should be focused on the back section... And probably evolved from the c3gs. Laszlo and Mark knows what I use atm but I don't think anyone has truly tried that specific combination I have

 

[plasmod3]

When you have too much gain you can use a C3o tubea little bit under e83fView attachment 117800

You actually want gain.

 

[DasguteOhr]

You actually want gain.

No...I want the volume control to work well because too much gain is a hindrance.at my dac i have lower the step up ration from output transformer sound much better.
that's why I recommended the C3o tube 40%gain from the c3g tube.

 

[plasmod3]

No...I want the volume control to work well because too much gain is a hindrance.at my dac i have lower the step up ration from output transformer sound much better.
that's why I recommended the C3o tube 40%gain from the c3g tube.

There are quite a few ways to do this Stephen, most ppl will not have the possibility of varying step up ratios from the output transformers. You can indeed play with gain using the tube combinations. With the horizon at 50 and the allnic at 30% there is a lot of leeway to, move gain wise. What is important to note that with specific tube combinations, not having the horizon at 60/63 does not actually affect sound quality any more. There is a way to immunise against needing to have your horizon at 63. I will not lower gain at the input stages though, that is not the best way.. Output yes but not input.

 

[DasguteOhr]

There are quite a few ways to do this Stephen, most ppl will not have the possibility of varying step up ratios from the output transformers. You can indeed play with gain using the tube combinations. With the horizon at 50 and the allnic at 30% there is a lot of leeway to, move gain wise. What is important to note that with specific tube combinations, not having the horizon at 60/63 does not actually affect sound quality any more. There is a way to immunise against needing to have your horizon at 63. I will not lower gain at the input stages though, that is not the best way.. Output yes but not input.

I have the same volume control(khozmo) in my preamp as the horizon dac. for my preamp works better with lower gain less distortion .if the subsequent stage is not fully utilized. All fine many ways to rome It was just a comment from me when you have too much gain.

 

[John T]

Been observing all the comments here of late. The c3gs are quite amazing tubes and I am glad I brought it to the attention of the forum a few months back and everyone is enjoying them in their setup

I have rolled into the c3gs more than a yr ago and know those tubes inside out.

So far I have been able to further develop the roll and have come to a few more conclusions

The rectifier actually means little in my roll now. The back combination is most important. If you have a strong back a few things become apparent

1.The need to use expensive rectifiers and roll expensive rectifiers. I use a cheap Svetlana 5c3s now and it beats the previous combination. I have rolled about 60 different rectifiers in the horizon now and this conclusion came as a surprise to me. I can only say we have a better synergy in the back section now so much so it works amazingly well.
2. Gain issues and horizon volume control doesn't matter anymore where preamp volume control works very very well with no loss of dynamics while using my horizon at 50

The key is in the back section. C3gs is a great tube, the new combination is however more insightful. More details, more soundstage and slam. I think expensive rectifiers... at least on the horizon is probably no longer the viable solution it once was. Money should be focused on the back section... And probably evolved from the c3gs. Laszlo and Mark knows what I use atm but I don't think anyone has truly tried that specific combination I have

Seeing that I don't need to use expensive rectifiers or roll with expensive rectifiers. I'll take some "inexpensive" Valvo 2504's off your hands. LOL!! I'm curious as to what your preamp is, amplifier, and speakers?

I had an interesting conversation with @Golum (Goran) on Saturday about systems and how/why different combinations work or don't. IMO, specific Tube combinations are not universally beneficial from system to system. I have all SS and the only tube component is the H. If everything in my system was tube components I believe things would translate a lot differently. If my amplification was different things would also present differently. Not to even mention speaker choice. Lots of different variables....

 

[plasmod3]

I have the same volume control(khozmo) in my preamp as the horizon dac. for my preamp works better with lower gain less distortion .if the subsequent stage is not fully utilized. All fine many ways to rome It was just a comment from me when you have too much gain.View attachment 117937

Wow that is one amazing looking component love it! Any chance of inside photos? Is that a wood housing?

 

[plasmod3]

Seeing that I don't need to use expensive rectifiers or roll with expensive rectifiers. I'll take some "inexpensive" Valvo 2504's off your hands. LOL!! I'm curious as to what your preamp is, amplifier, and speakers?

I had an interesting conversation with @Golum (Goran) on Saturday about systems and how/why different combinations work or don't. IMO, specific Tube combinations are not universally beneficial from system to system. I have all SS and the only tube component is the H. If everything in my system was tube components I believe things would translate a lot differently. If my amplification was different things would also present differently. Not to even mention speaker choice. Lots of different variables....

You see when luksz sold the horizon he bundled most with the Svetlana 5c3s. It's quite a coincidence that I went back to it.

Preamp allnic l10000
Amp wavac sh833
Speakers Goebel nobelesse

What we need to do is compartmentalise. The dac and server has to be as neutral and clean as possible and give us the most details. Tonality control comes after the dac through various means. You need for eg different cables after the dac

We need to get past the archaic concepts of warm or cold. What we need is naturalness. And tonality is one of the variables in have a very natural and believable sound

This is a recording of my system. Stream it in your car speakers.

Vocals is what I focus on but a lot of ppl say this track tells everything about a system

This is recorded on a mobile phone

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[Anyoldears]

You see when luksz sold the horizon he bundled most with the Svetlana 5c3s. It's quite a coincidence that I went back to it.

Preamp allnic l10000
Amp wavac sh833
Speakers Goebel nobelesse

What we need to do is compartmentalise. The dac and server has to be as neutral and clean as possible and give us the most details. Tonality control comes after the dac through various means. You need for eg different cables after the dac

We need to get past the archaic concepts of warm or cold. What we need is naturalness. And tonality is one of the variables in have a very natural and believable sound

This is a recording of my system. Stream it in your car speakers.

Vocals is what I focus on but a lot of ppl say this track tells everything about a system

This is recorded on a mobile phone

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Fanfare for the Common Man, Minnesota Orchestra & Eiji Oue ?

 

[plasmod3]

Fanfare for the Common Man, Minnesota Orchestra & Eiji Oue ?

Yup indeed

 

[DasguteOhr]

Wow that is one amazing looking component love it! Any chance of inside photos? Is that a wood housing?

Dual mono phono(sut)+line stage made of pure copper. in the middle there is a small main transformer for the Khozmo input and the volume control. What's a little tricky is that you can control both functions using a rotary knob and remote control.

 

[plasmod3]

The back plate is quite important, what damping measures are in place there? What capacitors are in there too?

I love all the copper in there

Looks like transformer coupled outputs?