so to you there is no audible difference between 32-48....there must be otherwise why change it. There are those here who are saying they hear no audible difference between.....
I just find this very odd TBH
Lampizator Horizon360 - Broadening Our Musical Horizons
- Thread starter Steve williams
- Start date
I just find this very odd TBH
I have been told that my preamp sounds best with a volume setting of about 20. That is too loud when the Horizon is at 63 so I have to lower it to about 50. If I want to keep it at 63 I have to lower my preamp to about 10. However, I don’t hear any real difference with those 2 combinations.
some tracks are recorded softer than others like ella's moonlight in vermont for eg so i just increase it up to match the volume of the tracks before . it wasnt for sq but more to get the soundlevel to the same volume as other tracks
Well I’ll ask again…. If you hear no difference in H volume settings why not just use your own preamp to match the difference in tracks, why change the gain on the Horizon.
Finally if Lukasz designed his DAC with an outstanding VC designed to be used without preamp why are there 64 settings
I think the VC on the Horizon is excellent. The only two reasons I use a preamp in my system is because my amps were designed to be used best with it and so also was my phono stage designed to be used best with the preamp. The three component simply sound better when used together otherwise I’d use no preamp and use the inputs on the Horizon.
it means standing up and changing the vc manually on the tm - its easily to just continue sitting on the chair and do it with the horizon vc
sq is pretty much the same in my unit which is the older horizon
A couple of quick explanations: Balanced is exactly THE SAME volume level as SE, but you are reading TWO phases instead of one so your amplifier produces 2x more sound power. Our DAC makes THE SAME signal on SE as on BAL.
On every sound volume level our DAC has THE SAME music quality, the DAC is indifferent to volume setting. The DAC does its job. The NEXT component - preamp or amplifier - responds with different behavior depending on the volume level hence your listening experience may vary. It all depends on the interplay between output level, output impedance, signal interplay with interconnects and the operating point of the preamp's volume control.
Our 63 setting only shorts the potentiometer resistor ladder inside, it does not bypass the "preamp" as it is our output stage.
We cant be responsible for people using different tubes and then reporting nonsense as "glare", or much too loud signal. Third party tubes on unknown adapters do that - not the DAC. Finally - I stand by my decision that I offer the right volume for everybody with my 62 steps and everybody has the playable range from too low to too high just to find his sweet spot. Every preamp boosts the signal 20dB up - and nobody complains about that, we have safety headroom of 6 dB and suddenly this is a problem of excess. I just dont get it. If adjusting volume is a morbid experience for you - why buy a VC DAC ? If 2 V is what you need - It is enough to say so, and we change one resistor - this cost me zero - and the volume will be 2V at 63.
On every sound volume level our DAC has THE SAME music quality, the DAC is indifferent to volume setting. The DAC does its job. The NEXT component - preamp or amplifier - responds with different behavior depending on the volume level hence your listening experience may vary. It all depends on the interplay between output level, output impedance, signal interplay with interconnects and the operating point of the preamp's volume control.
Our 63 setting only shorts the potentiometer resistor ladder inside, it does not bypass the "preamp" as it is our output stage.
We cant be responsible for people using different tubes and then reporting nonsense as "glare", or much too loud signal. Third party tubes on unknown adapters do that - not the DAC. Finally - I stand by my decision that I offer the right volume for everybody with my 62 steps and everybody has the playable range from too low to too high just to find his sweet spot. Every preamp boosts the signal 20dB up - and nobody complains about that, we have safety headroom of 6 dB and suddenly this is a problem of excess. I just dont get it. If adjusting volume is a morbid experience for you - why buy a VC DAC ? If 2 V is what you need - It is enough to say so, and we change one resistor - this cost me zero - and the volume will be 2V at 63.
Steve, you got me lost totally...I'm saying that I do not hear any difference in the sound QUALITY if I use H at the level of 47, 53, 63, or just whatever level I set on the H VC. And of course, I hear the difference in the SPL with each step I make...
It is exactly as Lukasz is saying in the video - there is no diff in the presentation quality which is a constant - there is just a diff in the SPL.
And it's up to us to find the perfect balance between the volume pot level used on the preamp and the VC level in the Horizon...
"If adjusting volume is a morbid experience for you" This could be one of the all time funniest lines ever on WBF! It took me a little while to get where I wanted to be. But I am there now and couldn't be happier...
I'm still trying to order a 360 from my dealer but have the normal Horizon. I too hear a very noticeable SQ difference between 62 and 63, where there is none between any of the volume levels below 63. Bypassing the potentiometer seems to make a quite big difference.
@Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus What is the output voltage now? I would gladly get a slightly lower voltage for the 63 output on the 360 I'm ordering as clipping is a significant problem for me currently and from what I gather will become an even bigger problem with 360.
@Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus What is the output voltage now? I would gladly get a slightly lower voltage for the 63 output on the 360 I'm ordering as clipping is a significant problem for me currently and from what I gather will become an even bigger problem with 360.
TY for explaining .I thought from what you were saying is that you could not detect a difference in sound volume. I understand completely now
Thank you for the clarification. It means this potentiometer resistor ladder is introducing a slight veil on the sound (less dynamic, smaller soundstage, less 'alive') at least in my system and to my ears. This also explains the difference between 0-62 and 63.
I'm actually using stock tubes as it arrived from the factory (now on my 7th day of burning it in). I have not yet embarked on the tube rolling journey, but I suppose I will fall into this rabbit hole one day anyway
.Haha, no not morbid at all. I actually like it for other sources, like TV, etc. It is only for listening to music where I'm looking for every last possibility for sound quality improvements.
That was my original idea, to have it sent back to the factory and have it adjusted. But then I've seen your video where you assured the audience that on XDMI this will not be an issue. Still sucks that if I ever move from XDMI to USB (for whatever reason), I will have to play with DSP or use the potentiometer resistor ladder VC in H360.
So to be happy on all fronts, I would prefer to have it adjusted to the industry standard level (like H1 was I think): 2V RMS unbalanced, 4V RMS balanced as long as it does not impact sound quality
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So to be happy on all fronts, I would prefer to have it adjusted to the industry standard level (like H1 was I think): 2V RMS unbalanced, 4V RMS balanced as long as it does not impact sound quality
You should try to listen to XDMI before you make that choice. It's an eye ( or should I say ear) opener
It would be useful to know the output of the H1 and H360 when the VC is set to 63 and using XDMI for for the input. My new Pilium Olympus pre specs state 5.6Vrms as the max input for XLR.
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If we provide a solution like that - it is ONLY when we are sure the SQ is not affected. I am quite fanatical about it.So to be happy on all fronts, I would prefer to have it adjusted to the industry standard level (like H1 was I think): 2V RMS unbalanced, 4V RMS balanced as long as it does not impact sound quality
The cable manufacturer (from whom I sourced all my unique cables), who also made his own unique amp (which is fantastic from my listening experience with it), gave this advice: "If someone owns a source with 10 volts output, it provides a golden opportunity for an amp designer to make a custom power amp with very low gain. In the hands of a good designer, a low gain power amp has features that can lead to better SQ for the same output power. Someone should take advantage of this opportunity. With a low gain power amp, the VC problem disappears."
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True, but you still don't need 9-10v for full amplifier power, unless your custom amp has an unusually high input sensitivity. You've got to 'burn off' that excess voltage somehow and somewhere, and even low gain is unnecessary.
Hello Gents, For a long time I wasn't too visible here, as the amount of work keeps me out. And when I can steal the time I am spending it on listening to the music, ... or reading the books To some of You, I obviously talk in private, so it is not that I am totally antisocial in that regard.
Here I got for you a first video review of Horizon 360*. Naturally, for the lucky bunch here there is nothing there that you don't know about yourself, but I am sure that you will appreciate the methodical approach and effort that Koji put into it. Besides, he became truly hooked on the Horizon charm, so there will be more to come. I will help him with the tube rolling with my glass house available, but I am sure that most of you have a lot to say, add, or suggest to him to explore. Please feel free to share your opinions, suggestions and general advice with him in the comments. I am sure he will make good use of it, for the mutual benefit of the whole LampizatOr family, worldwide. Please subscribe to his channel, if you find interesting what he talks about there and, the way he does it. That will certainly help him spread the information and boost his ratings with the algorithm games Enjoy!
I am spending it on listening to the music, ... or reading the books To some of You, I obviously talk in private, so it is not that I am totally antisocial in that regard.Here I got for you a first video review of Horizon 360*. Naturally, for the lucky bunch here there is nothing there that you don't know about yourself, but I am sure that you will appreciate the methodical approach and effort that Koji put into it. Besides, he became truly hooked on the Horizon charm, so there will be more to come. I will help him with the tube rolling with my glass house available, but I am sure that most of you have a lot to say, add, or suggest to him to explore. Please feel free to share your opinions, suggestions and general advice with him in the comments. I am sure he will make good use of it, for the mutual benefit of the whole LampizatOr family, worldwide. Please subscribe to his channel, if you find interesting what he talks about there and, the way he does it. That will certainly help him spread the information and boost his ratings with the algorithm games
Enjoy!
I just arrived home after 45 days in Europe. It was a long and epic trip! Even better, there was a 360 box waiting for me when I got here. Just sitting down for my second listening session. So far I am blown away. I will report more after some hours of listening. I am not using Taiko Olympus, nor is it likely I will, so my impressions will be different than others here. So far, i can say that the new name is very, very apt. The soundstage literally wraps around you, filling 360 degrees with sound. The clarity, presence and soundstage increase are the immediate stand out notes this early in… I will try to articulate more as I listen more. So far I can only say Bravo to Lukas! Yet again…
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