Lampizator Horizon360 - Broadening Our Musical Horizons

Thanks guys. My remote is the "all black" version so I have the most current one which explains why a new one wasn't included.

My upgraded Horizon 360 arrived yesterday. Exciting times! I'll be setting it up and beginning the break-in process barring any glitches or problems. I will provide my initial review in the coming days of course.
 
Do the upgraded Horizon 360's come with the "new remote control" as mentioned on the website?
Not in my case I believe. Accoridng to the Lampizator website:

Remote Control - CNC milled metal "slab" remote, new model with AA batteries

My remote is also black like others mentioned, but it still has the same internals as H1 remote with two CR2032 batteries.
But I don’t really care unless the new remote has some better functionality or looks even cooler
 
My one wish for the remote is to have actually discrete on and off codes. My dream to automate the whole turn on and off process through home assistant. Horizon then Westminsterlabs Quest then REI, lights down and air purifier off, volume up. The lack of a discrete on and off command (only having a toggle) can result in a missyncd condition…
 
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Thanks for the clarification Stefan. I guess I have the old remote too (i.e. black with CR2032 batteries). Perhaps, Lukasz should remove the reference to a "new remote control" from the website because it doesn't appear to be "key" to the "Key Horizon360 highlights" if it's not included with the rebuild.

The good news is my Horizon360 works! No operational glitches, so I'm pleased. Review forthcoming in the next week or so, after I have put ~50 hours under its belt. It's nice to have the system up and running again.

Have a great weekend, all.
 
Using a Horizon360 has anybody compared an Innuos Pulsar or an Innuos Statement Next-Gen to an Antipodes?
 
Thanks for the clarification Stefan. I guess I have the old remote too (i.e. black with CR2032 batteries). Perhaps, Lukasz should remove the reference to a "new remote control" from the website because it doesn't appear to be "key" to the "Key Horizon360 highlights" if it's not included with the rebuild.

The good news is my Horizon360 works! No operational glitches, so I'm pleased. Review forthcoming in the next week or so, after I have put ~50 hours under its belt. It's nice to have the system up and running again.

Have a great weekend, all
Looking forward to your review.
 
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It is a known fact, that we give preference to musical presentation that sounds 1dB louder without acknowledging that it is simply louder. We call it better. That is obvious when doing the A/B testing, if levels are not matched the louder component ALWAYS WINS no matter how much better the other component may be. Untill things get too loud, within the comfort zone this 1 dB makes a huge difference. Nuances and micro clues - with the louder signal come to the surface and are audible which in turn creates a sensation of "oh now I can hear better" and such is the nature of our hearing sense. So it comes as no surprise that someone comparing 24 and 26, or 19 and 21, or 50 and 52 or 62 and 63 will always choose the louder as better. Between 62 and 63 is a 2 dB step (not one) because this is the end of the scale and the resistors are switched off by a shorting relay. In short: YES you are right to hear 63 as better than 62 - it means your ears are healthy, and at the same time NO - you have no right to complain and blame the DAC. Everything is correct.
 
It is a known fact, that we give preference to musical presentation that sounds 1dB louder without acknowledging that it is simply louder. We call it better. That is obvious when doing the A/B testing, if levels are not matched the louder component ALWAYS WINS no matter how much better the other component may be. Untill things get too loud, within the comfort zone this 1 dB makes a huge difference. Nuances and micro clues - with the louder signal come to the surface and are audible which in turn creates a sensation of "oh now I can hear better" and such is the nature of our hearing sense. So it comes as no surprise that someone comparing 24 and 26, or 19 and 21, or 50 and 52 or 62 and 63 will always choose the louder as better. Between 62 and 63 is a 2 dB step (not one) because this is the end of the scale and the resistors are switched off by a shorting relay. In short: YES you are right to hear 63 as better than 62 - it means your ears are healthy, and at the same time NO - you have no right to complain and blame the DAC. Everything is correct.

I’m astonished it took so long for anyone to bring up this critical point. Every audiophile has known for years that when comparators are made between 2 conditions, the listening level must be absolutely equal or the louder option will always have a sonic advantage, even if the difference is 0.5dB. I thought it was foolish for anyone to state 63 sounded better than anything without doing the proper control for volume differences as Lukasz stated. If you want to do the comparison correctly, when you turn the H down to anything other than 63, you must compensate by turning your preamp up commensurately to assure the SPLs are identical between the two conditions. If you don’t do this, you are probably fooling yourself in the conclusions you draw from any comparison.

There is perhaps, another way to assess the contribution of the resistor ladder VC in the Horizon which is to use a comparator against another source in the following way. I use an LP that has reference caliber sonics as a comparator. Let’s say it’s Reiner’s Scheherezade for example. Play a passage at your usual listening level and give it the arbitrary score of “100” or to make it more tangible, call it “a dollar”. Now play the identical piece through your H (or H360) and server and adjust the volume to be equal by setting the H at 63 and the preamp at whatever it needs to be to achieve the identical volume as your analog source. Is the resultant sound still “100”? Let’s say it’s not but it’s close. Call it 95 cents (an arbitrary number for the moment but useful for this purpose). What’s nice is that you should able to queue up the LP so that when it starts, you can hit play on your digital rig to get an instant A/B comparisons this way with a seamless music passage.

Now, turn the H down to any number. In my case, it would be 49 so the digital and analog SPL levels are identical with the same preamp gain on my Soulution 727. Now, do the same comparison. Start the LP and the digital at the same time, and do the same A/B comparison. This method has the advantage of not having to change your preamp volume as you are now using the H resistor ladder to make the volumes identical. When you do the same A/B comparison, is the value of the digital signal still a 95? Or is it different? (Could be a 93, (might be a 97 or even 102! - doubtful but who knows? No need to bring in expectation bias.) What this method allows is that the sonic merit of bypassing the H resistor ladder vs using a single resistor (to equate volume) can be assessed quite easily. It’s not perfect as a commensurate adjustment in preamp volume is also necessary if you use the H at 63 (whereas no change in preamp level is necessary by matching volume by attenuating the H (to 49 in my case). To do this indirect comparison method best, its useful to have a second pair of hands adjust the H and your preamp simultaneously when you make the switch. But the advantage of being able to go back and forth between your LP and digital essentially instantly with the identical music is nonetheless a very useful comparator. It is not however a true single variable experiment due to the requisite change in preamp volume likely needed when you run the H at 63, but still it’s a very useful, especially when done blinded.

What did I find when doing this? To be honest, I always preferred the H at 63 slightly even when I adjusted for gain using my 727 preamp. To put this into numbers, I concluded that if my analog source was worth a dollar, the digital source with H at 63 and preamp volume lowered was about 96 cents. With the H at 49 (so no adjustment is necessary using the preamp gain, I would say the value was about 95 cents. It would be wrong to conclude that the only reason for this conclusion is solely due to the addition of a single resistor in the H resistor ladder since as we said one is adjusting the preamp volume as well using this method. But is it a useful comparison method nonetheless? Try it for yourself and see. Splitting hairs? Yes. A useful exercise? Maybe. A waste of time? Probably, since the differences you will likely find are nominal and have little effect on musical enjoyment.

However, when all is said and done, the level you set the H may have far more relevance than just SQ minutiae for the following reason. If you set the H at 63 and you are playing an LP at a realistic level, and you switch to digital without lowering your preamp volume, you just might launch a speaker driver right out of the cabinet. In other words, lowering the H volume to say, 49 in my case, so that the levels are identical when switching from LP to digital, is a safety feature to avoid large volume surprises when switching sources that might be harmful. That alone is a very valid consideration. Since I switch between analog and digital sources often, I keep the H volume at 49 most of the time. But if I really want to go the extra mile to assure my digital signal is “optimum”, I will on occasion bring the H back to 63 just to make sure my audio OCD is alive and well. I just have to remember to turn my preamp down when doing so if the last thing I played was an LP.
 
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good point but in my. case I am not comparing vinyl vs digital. I am stating that I prefer to use the lamp gain at 63 into my preamp and to adjust my preamp gain downwards. In my preamp, the gain control is usually set at the 5th detente position. I prefer to pass the whole signal into my preamp at 63 and accordingly I am adjusting my preamp gain down to the 4th detente position.
 
I’m astonished it took so long for anyone to bring up this critical point. Every audiophile has known for years that when comparators are made between 2 conditions, the listening level must be absolutely equal or the louder option will always have a sonic advantage, even if the difference is 0.5dB. I thought it was foolish for anyone to state 63 sounded better than anything without doing the proper control for volume differences as Lukasz stated. If you want to do the comparison correctly, when you turn the H down to anything other than 63, you must compensate by turning your preamp up commensurately to assure the SPLs are identical between the two conditions. If you don’t do this, you are probably fooling yourself in the conclusions you draw from any comparison.

There is perhaps, another way to assess the contribution of the resistor ladder VC in the Horizon which is to use a comparator against another source in the following way. I use an LP that has reference caliber sonics as a comparator. Let’s say it’s Reiner’s Scheherezade for example. Play a passage at your usual listening level and give it the arbitrary score of “100” or to make it more tangible, call it “a dollar”. Now play the identical piece through your H (or H360) and server and adjust the volume to be equal by setting the H at 63 and the preamp at whatever it needs to be to achieve the identical volume as your analog source. Is the resultant sound still “100”? Let’s say it’s not but it’s close. Call it 95 cents (an arbitrary number for the moment but useful for this purpose). What’s nice is that you should able to queue up the LP so that when it starts, you can hit play on your digital rig to get an instant A/B comparisons this way with a seamless music passage.

Now, turn the H down to any number. In my case, it would be 49 so the digital and analog SLP levels are identical with the same preamp gain on my Soulution 727. Now, do the same comparison. Start the LP and the digital at the same time, and do the same A/B comparison. This method has the advantage of not having to change your preamp volume as you are now using the H resistor ladder to make the volumes identical. When you do the same A/B comparison, is the value of the digital signal still a 95? Or is it different? (Could be a 93, (might be a 97 or even 102! - doubtful but who knows?) What this method allows is that the sonic merit of bypassing the H resistor ladder vs using a single resistor (to equate volume) can be assessed quite easily. It’s not perfect as a commensurate adjustment in preamp volume is also necessary if you use the H at 63 (whereas no change in preamp level is necessary by matching volume by attenuating the H (to 49 in my case). To do this indirect comparison method best, its useful to have a second pair of hands adjust the H and your preamp simultaneously when you make the switch. But the advantage of being able to go back and forth between your LP and digital essentially instantly with the identical music is nonetheless a very useful comparator. It is not however a true single variable experiment due to the requisite change in preamp volume likely needed when you run the H at 63, but still it’s a very useful, especially when done blinded.

What did I find when doing this? To be honest, I always preferred the H at 63 slightly even when I adjusted for gain using my 727 preamp. To put this into numbers, I concluded that if my analog source was worth a dollar, the digital source with H at 63 and preamp volume lowered was about 96 cents. With the H at 49 (so no adjustment is necessary using the preamp gain, I would say the value was about 95 cents. It would be wrong to conclude that the only reason for this conclusion is solely due to the addition of a single resistor in the H resistor ladder since as we said one is adjusting the preamp volume as well using this method. But is it a useful comparison method nonetheless? Try it for yourself and see. Splitting hairs? Yes. A useful exercise? Maybe. A waste of time? Probably, since the differences you will probably find are nominal and have little effect on musical enjoyment.

However, when all is said and done, the level you set the H may have far more relevance than just SQ minutiae for the following reason. If you set the H at 63 and you are playing an LP at a realistic level, and you switch to digital without lowering your preamp volume, you just might launch a speaker driver right out of the cabinet. In other words, lowering the H volume to say, 49 in my case, so that the levels are identical when switching from LP to digital, is a safety feature to avoid large volume surprises when switching sources that might be harmful. That alone is a very valid consideration. Since I switch between analog and digital sources often, I keep the H volume at 49 most of the time. But if I really want to go the extra mile to assure my digital signal is “optimum”, I will on occasion bring the H back to 63 just to make sure my audio OCD is alive and well. I just have to remember to turn my preamp down when doing so if the last thing I played was an LP.
As you know I have been conducting similar evaluations minus analog. I like very much your approach. Now with the Solution 727 in my system since Tuesday all my previous data points are out the window. That's okay, I love this preamp!! Up to this point I have only run Balanced (my brain can only be subjected to so much) I will use RCA once I am comfortable with the 727 settled in and see/hear what I think. To your point the 727 will have to be "calibrated" accordingly to allow for the lesser unbalanced signal...

I'm very comfortable at 59-60 on the H/360, numerical on the 727 around 43 and I do go higher depending on what I am listening to. My room has a massive amount of Cubic Feet. 30' X 26' X 26H, 9/12 pitch, open loft. Maybe 15K cubic feet? I find the variables fascinating. I'm curious as to with your H/360 at 49, what are your typical numerical # on the 727? I would imagine well into the 50's? But then again size of the room...Very interesting...EDIT; To yours and Lukasz point regarding higher volume; Its a fine line determining if the higher volume translates to better SQ. Initially sure your drawn to it more but with critical listening this is what determines the final outcome...
 
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good point but in my. case I am not comparing vinyl vs digital. I am stating that I prefer to use the lamp gain at 63 into my preamp and to adjust my preamp gain downwards. In my preamp, the gain control is usually set at the 5th detente position. I prefer to pass the whole signal into my preamp at 63 and accordingly I am adjusting my preamp gain down to the 4th detente position.
Steve, your approach is certainly valid. But as Lukasz said, I don't think you can compare 63 to 62 (or anything "X") unless you correct gain with your preamp so the volumes are identical and do a blinded comparison. A feasible alternative is to compare 63 and "X" by using a known alternate as the comparator as the standard (with all its flaws) which could be vinyl or even tape. But no matter how you do a comparison, keeping the volume identical is the key and very hard to do unless you have a helper to adjust your preamp volume in each comparison, and do it blinded. The question is, with 63 and detente 4, can you reliably pick that combo blinded over 62 and detente 5 (assuming both give identical volumes) more than 8 or 9 out of 10 times consistently? Lukasz suggests that many would not be able to do so. Although my preamp volume settings are different, I tried to do a similar comparison several times, both by direct comparison and by indirect methodology using the vinyl as the reference standard and never really proved to myself I could. The truth is my assistant in charge of the preamp volume changes got fed up with the experiment, told me it was a futile exercise, and to stop wasting her time. She may have been right.
 
I guess what I am trying to say is that IIRC at some point with the first Horizon (and correct me if I'm am wrong) Lukasz said that the entire signal is passed with setting at 63. With that in mind I have always felt that passing the entire signal to my preamp and adjusting my preamp accordingly just made more sense but I do get your point
 
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It’s never too late to joint the party…D8FF77B9-6A0E-4B4C-AB0E-663B5E82E3BC.jpeg
 
It’s never too late to joint the party…View attachment 138367
Congrats! What are your thoughts? Mine is finally breaking in. It took just over a week. The change for me has been marvelous. It is a nice uptick in clarity, presence and soundstage especially. There is more bass, which may be an issue for some like me who have a small room, but I deal with this anyway. Overall, I am very, very happy with the upgrade. Worth it for any Horizon owner for sure.
 
We just open the doors at the Warsaw Audio Show with the Horizon360 in the spotlight, together with Clarisys MONSTROUS speakers "Atrium" that weigh gross metric ton and a half and take 10 000 curse words to carry up the fire escape stairs. Powered by Convergent Audio technology CAT monoblocs and with J.Sikora Reference turntable and 180 thousand dollars of KBL wiring.
 

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Congrats! What are your thoughts? Mine is finally breaking in. It took just over a week. The change for me has been marvelous. It is a nice uptick in clarity, presence and soundstage especially. There is more bass, which may be an issue for some like me who have a small room, but I deal with this anyway. Overall, I am very, very happy with the upgrade. Worth it for any Horizon owner for sure.
Can't really comment as it worked yesterday for several hours but I would say that initial impression mirrors what You wrote above. And I'm using my long time preferred tube set which I won't roll at all. As Marty said - "just enjoy the music" and he's 100% right
 
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We just open the doors at the Warsaw Audio Show with the Horizon360 in the spotlight, together with Clarisys MONSTROUS speakers "Atrium" that weigh gross metric ton and a half and take 10 000 curse words to carry up the fire escape stairs. Powered by Convergent Audio technology CAT monoblocs and with J.Sikora Reference turntable and 180 thousand dollars of KBL wiring.
See you in a mo
 
We just open the doors at the Warsaw Audio Show with the Horizon360 in the spotlight, together with Clarisys MONSTROUS speakers "Atrium" that weigh gross metric ton and a half and take 10 000 curse words to carry up the fire escape stairs. Powered by Convergent Audio technology CAT monoblocs and with J.Sikora Reference turntable and 180 thousand dollars of KBL wiring.
See you soon.
We just entered the plane.
 

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