Enjoy! From my experience with two units, at least 48 hours are needed to hear that it opens up. After a week it feels like you heard it for the first time again. I will be looking forward to your further reports.
Lampizator Horizon360 - Broadening Our Musical Horizons
- Thread starter Steve williams
- Start date
My Horizon returned today via Greg D and run in by Koji. I've only spent an hour or so with it, but some early thoughts.....
The overarching feeling is one of a more natural presentation of the music - you feel more present, either in-the-room for live recordings as if you've moved 10 rows forward, or having a seat at the mixing desk for studio recordings. Breaking this down, I think there are a number of contributing factors:
(1) The soundstage has shifted across a number of dimensions - it is modestly wider, but more importantly it has taken a few steps forward making you feel closer to the performance. Further, there is a greater sense of space around each instrument / voice etc - this is perhaps most noticeable front to back, where a vocal and instrument can be dead centre but the vocal more forward than the instrument.
(2) There is a greater sense of speed to the 360 - it sounds very quick particularly around transients on acoustic guitars for example. Ironically this gives a more relaxed sense to the music, I think this is because it creates more space between the notes, resulting in a more natural flow and pace.
(3) Dynamically the 360 moves the game on. This may be in part to the speed mentioned above, but the jump factor is considerably higher than the original Horizon suggesting it is more than just speed. For example, percussion hits jump out at you from the background surprising you in the same way a real performance would do.
(4) The bass seems more tuneful when reaching into the really deep stuff.
I'll add further thoughts as and when relevant, but at this stage I'm very happy with the upgrade. Kudos to the Lampizator team!
The overarching feeling is one of a more natural presentation of the music - you feel more present, either in-the-room for live recordings as if you've moved 10 rows forward, or having a seat at the mixing desk for studio recordings. Breaking this down, I think there are a number of contributing factors:
(1) The soundstage has shifted across a number of dimensions - it is modestly wider, but more importantly it has taken a few steps forward making you feel closer to the performance. Further, there is a greater sense of space around each instrument / voice etc - this is perhaps most noticeable front to back, where a vocal and instrument can be dead centre but the vocal more forward than the instrument.
(2) There is a greater sense of speed to the 360 - it sounds very quick particularly around transients on acoustic guitars for example. Ironically this gives a more relaxed sense to the music, I think this is because it creates more space between the notes, resulting in a more natural flow and pace.
(3) Dynamically the 360 moves the game on. This may be in part to the speed mentioned above, but the jump factor is considerably higher than the original Horizon suggesting it is more than just speed. For example, percussion hits jump out at you from the background surprising you in the same way a real performance would do.
(4) The bass seems more tuneful when reaching into the really deep stuff.
I'll add further thoughts as and when relevant, but at this stage I'm very happy with the upgrade. Kudos to the Lampizator team!
My updated H360 is back from the factory with lowered gain and I can only say: WOW
Now I finally hear what it can do without any DSP in the middle to lower the volume. It is as engaging as H1 was, but also so much more. This is still via USB with Taiko Extreme. Can't wait how it will sound via XDMI and Taiko Olympus.
I want to say a big Thank you Lukasz for your openness and willingness to make such updates and so promptly. It took less than 2 weeks to send it in and get it back.
May I also have a "small" request? Would be great if you could get in contact with Roon to get your DACs under the 'Roon Tested' or 'Roon Ready' certification. Then we could have a cool small icon of the H360 (or your other dacs) showing up in Roon. Other big names like DCS, TotalDAC and others are in, so why not Lampizator? I was told on Roon forums, that this process needs to be initiated by the DAC manufacturer and not by Roon.
This is great news and I’m happy for you, Stefan. This does beg the question though why set the gain so high in the first place.
Can you please elaborate on the difference in gain voltage between standard what you now have?
H1 has a max output voltage in balanced mode around 4V. Standard H360 is between 9-10V on balanced. This can be great in certain setups, but also can cause problems when you want to use your own preamp which is not built to accept this bigger voltage. As several owners mentioned, the difference between running full output from H360 (VC on 63) or some value below, they don't observe any difference. Thus for such users, there is no point in trying to run H360 on 63 and can simply lower the volume to 57 or anything that suites their circumstances.
In my case, I can hear a clear difference between 62 and 63 (mind you, not in volume, but SQ).
I don't hear any difference in SQ from 0 up to 62 (just volume change), so I do agree with Lukasz that this is a very high quality VC.
I think for users who can hear a SQ difference and want to use their own preamp and the preamp is clipping on 63, then one solution is to ask Lukasz for gain adjustment. Majority of manufacturers would not agree to such changes, but Lukasz luckily does.
My H360 is now running 4V balanced.
Maybe for H360 v2, there could be a user selectable output gain, but no idea if such extra feature could impact SQ.
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What I am curious about is by attenuating the 360 down what is the incremental voltage drop within the numerical numbers on the 360 and how does that corelate? If 63 translates to 10 Volts, what is 60? I'm demoing the Solution 727 linestage in the near future, it has a maximum input of 9VPP. (volts peak to peak) I have been listening with the 360 at 59-60 (Balanced). GREAT RESULTS! I find that this is my sweet spot for my room/system. (with current linestage) I do not like going much lower than that. I'm not looking to over compensate on my pre to balance things out for lower numbers on the 360. This I don't like! I'm using the H1 as my memory bank to mimic similar results regarding listening habits/VC with very familiar pieces of music. Keep in mind the 360 needs a good amount of hours for time to settle in...
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I see where your going Steve with this question but for now we have to utilize what we have. For me and most its USB until the Olympus is a reality...
I did mention it before. I'm on USB for now as I'm in the loooong waiting list for Olympus with XDMI
For my ears the 360 with Olympus/IO connected XDMI is a game changer and lucky for me my preamp doesnt clip when I run the 360 full signal at 63
XDMI IMO Is such a game changer that IMO given the option people wont be using USB if they have an Olympus. I still have not heard the Taiko XDMI analogue board as I am so gobsmacked with the digital board and my Horizon 360
XDMI IMO Is such a game changer that IMO given the option people wont be using USB if they have an Olympus. I still have not heard the Taiko XDMI analogue board as I am so gobsmacked with the digital board and my Horizon 360
My understanding from Lukasz clarification video a few weeks ago was that while USB definitely has that higher gain up to 9-10V, once you go to XDMI digital the gain is more like H1, and he indicated the concern disappears. Again, my main takeaway from that video. That is why I am sticking with 'full gain' option for the 360 upgrade as ultimately I will be XDMI (once the Olympii start flowing, fingers crossed). Please correct me if I am wrong.
Not everyone interested in the Horizon (maybe someday) has or will have the extra cash for an Olympus to pair with it (or just likes the server they already have). Us mortals may have to make due with USB and would like to have it output at a level that our plebeian pre-amps can handle.
I completely understand and thats why I was asking what Stefan was using. Im not trying to play elitist but merely suggesting the issue with XDMI (for me at least) did not exist
I don't expect everyone to be interested in the Horizon/Olympus but for those of us who are; We are just sharing information in order to optimize what we are doing. I am far from the elitist when it comes to this game or in any. BTW, my current plebeian preamp, I will be lucky to fetch 15-16K on the used market...
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