Lampizator Horizon360 - Broadening Our Musical Horizons

[MarkusBarkus]

...if I was in your shoes, I would do the same. Everyone wants to know, but doing product dev "real-time" online is a nightmare, IMO. Sure, we "want" to know, but it creates too many issues, and too much anxiety. Too many opinions. In the end, a tighter loop is better.

 

[Sampajanna]

I love the surprise!

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

Have you tried Horizon to Neptune? What does it bring if so?

My Horizon leaves for Poland on Wed. Safe travels!!!

That is something I havent tried yet. I may do it today and see for myself.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

Congratulations on the release of this new Horizon 360 model, Lukasz and Fred! I would love to do an interview with you, Lukasz, about the new model!

Will any design elements of the new 360 trickle down to the Poseidon? To a Baltic 5?

I am getting a haircut and I am ready!

 

[plasmod3]

Concerning the secret of betatesting - we never told anybody including our distributors and dealers about the plan for H360 because i REALLY hate the pressure which automatically occurs. So we were testing the breadboard and cardboard prototypes using the friendly audiophiles rather than creating an official process. We converted a TOTAL NIGHTMARE OF A POSSIBLE SIX MONTHS DELAY into 6 months of creative fun excercise.

how do you choose your friendly audiophiles Luksz? will be nice to have one in every continent no? haha

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

how do you choose your friendly audiophiles Luksz? will be nice to have one in every continent no? haha

I choose them by the criteria ov my EV range of driving on one charge

 

[heihei]

That is something I havent tried yet. I may do it today and see for myself.

With the Audionec Evo 3's? Audio heaven!!

 

[Apex0]

My Horizon 360 is now well on its way to full break-in so it was time to share the listening experience. A good friend is a musician who has played with Philadelphia Orchestra spent the evening last night and his comments were fascinating. It's always interesting when you play the system for musician rather than an audiophile. His main observation succinctly put, is is that he has never heard a music reproduction system capture the timbre of real instruments as what he heard last evening. For him, it's all about instrument timbre and it was the authentic timbre of the instrument that was transformative and made the players seem to appear before him with a realism he had not previously heard (he has heard my system several times previously). My friend is a trumpet player and he commented repeatedly on the heightened clarity of the orchestral instruments he heard.

What blew my mind is that on recording after recording, he identified trumpet player after trumpet player (not just the principals but the 2nd and 3rd seats as well) of the great orchestras of the world because he recognized the sound of their individual playing. He said the level of transparency he heard was something he had not previously experienced and that allowed him to identify exactly who was playing. What impressed him was that Horizon's newfound improved transparency is coupled to a very organic sound and on this point, I could not agree more.

I can now appreciate the comments of others who thought the Horizon, as good as it is, did not have the same organic sound signature as some of the DHT DACs in the Lampi line-up such as the GG3 or Pacific. But the organic sound of the Horizon 360 removes this concern, at least for me, and it very much adds to the sonic merits of the unit. The combination of transparency and lower distortion with enhanced organicity allowed him to make other observations that surprised me. For example, we played a Prokofiev piece (Decca) and without knowing who was playing he commented that he could hear the vibrato of the oboe so clearly that he knew if must be a European orchestra -it was indeed the London Symphony!. (Apparently, American orchestra oboe players are not trained to play with vibrato as much or at all- who knew?) This was one of several observations he made that were the result of the system improvements he heard with the Horizon 360.

Just like audiophiles who often pride themselves in hearing sonic details that others care little about, musicians also have their nits to pick. My friend made repeated comments about the mouthpieces certain players used that he said he could distinguish for the first time due to the increased timbral resolution of the system, but these comments were well above my pay grade as I could neither appreciate their distinctions, nor care enough to learn more! My favorite comment however, came after we played the 4th movement of Reiner's Scheherezade to which he said "I always knew the CSO was great, but I didn't appreciate how great they were until I heard this piece tonight on your system". If an orchestral musician can say that as the result of a specific piece of gear added to one's system, that sort of puts what the Horizon 360 offers musically into the proper perspective.

What's the cost of new Horizon 360? Thanks

 

[marty]

What's the cost of new Horizon 360? Thanks

See post #23

 

[Willgolf]

I checked out the website and saw the pricing for the Horizon but nothing on the 360?????

 

[LampiNA]

I checked out the website and saw the pricing for the Horizon but nothing on the 360?????

The Horizon 360 is 55,000€.

 

[rspyder]

Very exciting news Lukasz. A creative mind never rests.

I have only one question and it concerns this statement in H360 announcement; "That means effectively that we put a 2 year research and development effort into improving USB and i2S and S/PDIF or AES/EBU inputs." However, the list of the new Horizon upgrades on your website does not include improved inputs (e.g. USB). Has the USB input of the H360 been improved as well?

 

[bonzo75]

A creative mind never rests.

Audiophiles must be the most creative people then

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

Very exciting news Lukasz. A creative mind never rests.

I have only one question and it concerns this statement in H360 announcement; "That means effectively that we put a 2 year research and development effort into improving USB and i2S and S/PDIF or AES/EBU inputs." However, the list of the new Horizon upgrades on your website does not include improved inputs (e.g. USB). Has the USB input of the H360 been improved as well?

Dear Sir,
please read your own post again. (re USB)

 

[Famester]

The Horizon 360 is 55,000€.

As they say in sunny Hialeah.... Azucar!

 

[rspyder]

Dear Sir,
please read your own post again. (re USB)

Dear Sir, please read your announcements embedded in Steve's #1 post and Lampi's Poland site again. I'll dissect a few points to help you help us:

- "That in turns [sic] may lead to offering an optional 3xBNC/i2S connection - BY FAR the best digital audio signal connection of the whole hi-fi industry. Better than RJ45, AES/EBU, HDMI, SPDIF, TOSLINK and any other you can name." (Query: So 3xBNC/i2S is better than the improved "USB and i2S and S/PDIF or [sic] AES/EBU inputs" because Lampizator "wanted to give to all the people who will NOT HAVE the Taiko Olympus a nice boost in sound quality when the Horizon is used with whatever server / streamer people might have. That means effectively that we put a 2 year research and development effort into improving USB and i2S and S/PDIF or AES/EBU inputs."

- "The main differences (except increased sound quality) are:" (Query: By "except" do you mean "including"?)

- "Two i2s ports: HDMI and RJ45 plus a possibility of an optional third “3xBNC” i2S port". (Query: When will we know if "3xBNC/i2S", "BY FAR the best digital audio signal connection of the whole hi-fi industry" is going to be an actual additional port"? Or, is that part of the "Open path for next 20 years of upgrades" without having to return our DACs to Poland?

 

[Thundersnow]

By reading the posts on What’s Best, at this point, I have no idea anymore what’s being sold and why. There are all these acronyms and fancy tags like “360” flying around, but at this point, everything seems to be fusing into this one giant murky stream of marketing goo.

What exactly is XDMI and if it’s faster than conventional bus standards (or whatever the heck it is) why isn’t it used for mining bit coin instead of “sounding analogue?” That’s a Taiko question I guess. I mean, at their very core streamers are still glorified PCs (Linux or derivatives or Windows), or has there been a memo I missed that if your streamer weighs over a metric ton it stops having PC DNA? Or has any of the audio companies written a PC OS from scratch? In which case, why aren’t you selling it to the infinitely bigger PC market instead of fiddling with hi fi?

Is Horizon 360 a redesign of standard DAC inputs (like USB) or a pivot due to lack of parts to sustain the current production (as was the case with clearly sonically superior DHT tubes), or a preemptive way of getting one up on Taiko with an integrated DAC?

All these questions are getting a little hard to decipher.

 

[steve williams]

By reading the posts on What’s Best, at this point, I have no idea anymore what’s being sold and why. There are all these acronyms and fancy tags like “360” flying around, but at this point, everything seems to be fusing into this one giant murky stream of marketing goo.

What exactly is XDMI and if it’s faster than conventional bus standards (or whatever the heck it is) why isn’t it used for mining bit coin instead of “sounding analogue?” That’s a Taiko question I guess. I mean, at their very core streamers are still glorified PCs (Linux or derivatives or Windows), or has there been a memo I missed that if your streamer weighs over a metric ton it stops having PC DNA? Or has any of the audio companies written a PC OS from scratch? In which case, why aren’t you selling it to the infinitely bigger PC market instead of fiddling with hi fi?

Is Horizon 360 a redesign of standard DAC inputs (like USB) or a pivot due to lack of parts to sustain the current production (as was the case with clearly sonically superior DHT tubes), or a preemptive way of getting one up on Taiko with an integrated DAC?

All these questions are getting a little hard to decipher.

I thought this explained it very well

"Horizon360 is our first ever improvement of our flagship Horizon DAC since its creation 3 years ago.This move is mainly enforced by the chip availability limitations. When our “magic” chip got almost depleted and also we started working on Taiko Olympus XDMI interface - we had to decide to make major changes and eventually find a different chip. After searching the whole world for it and after endless experiments and prototyping that took 2 years - we arrived at a design that sounds better than the original Horizon with the same sound signature that we are famous for. We decided to give the project a green light and we considered it worthy of calling it the new name - Horizon360.
Business-wise, the original plan was just to overcome the parts shortage but as the Taiko Olympus story evolved, we saw a huge opportunity there. Since the Olympus is challenging the status quo of the digital music industry, we joined that process by adopting the Olympus XDMI as the first DAC manufacturer in the world. That is nice, but the market for Olympus is a limited one, by both factors of price as well as their supply output. Therefore we wanted to give to all the people who will NOT HAVE the Taiko Olympus a nice boost in sound quality when the Horizon is used with whatever server / streamer people might have. That means effectively that we put a 2 year research and development effort into improving USB and i2S and S/PDIF or AES/EBU inputs.
The new conversion chip required a completely new, “blank sheet” PCB design, with new inputs, new receiver, new power supply, new grounding, new multiplexing, new firmware and software that controls the conversion process. The main differences (except increased sound quality) are: i2S via HDMI doesn’t need master clock and will work off 3-wire connection - versus typical 4-wire before. That in turns may lead to offering an optional 3xBNC/i2S connection - BY FAR the best digital audio signal connection of the whole hi-fi industry. Better than RJ45, AES/EBU, HDMI, SPDIF, TOSLINK and any other you can name.

DSD now can be configured as 1024x versus 512x before (some of you will be thrilled) however for our internal reasons we decided to keep the maximum at 512x for the foreseeable future. The same goes for

PCM1536kHz sampling rate - the fastest in the industry.
PCM is now set at 768 kHz.
Taiko XDMI interface is now built-in and embedded in the design. Ev

For Taiko Extreme - the sound quality of USB difference will be magnificent. (as well as for the other non-Taiko sources)
The name Horizon360 was suggested by our experience with the first prototype sound: someone commented - WOW, this is like old Horizon only it is a 360 degrees now - meaning - the experience is much more immersive and three-dimensional. It is sort of like the actual horizon when you are on the ocean.
We decided to handle our precious flagship DAC with extreme care and not risk any unnecessary changes just for changes. We left the same tubes, same output circuits, same chassis and display. We wanted to make sure that Horizon remains Horizon and when we are asked - we will answer with confidence that the new one is BETTER not just different and if you liked the H1 - you will love the H360 changes undeniably !

The list of differences versus Horizon-1:
1. New digital engine with new circuit and new parts
2. DSD 1024x vs 512x (not yet enabled)
3. Pcm 1520 vs 760 kHz (not yet enabled)
4. Two i2s ports: HDMI and RJ45 plus a possibility of an optional third “3xBNC” i2S port
5. No need for external clocks signal - a 3-way i2S is all we need now 6. Taiko XDMI link input port built in
7. Improved power transformers - 4 versus 3 before
8. Open path for next 20 years of upgrades
Horizon 1 in its original form will be phased out during the month of August 2024 and the remaining parts will be shelved for the future service needs.
The upgrade service will be offered starting from September 1 and only through the Dealer network.
You can distinguish visually the new version by the front panel logo containing 360 element as well as the rear panel description"

Lukasz Fikus

As for XDMI , it is a completely new interface designed by Taiko and if you do a search here in our search box, you will find Emile's description and by all accounts it merits hearing. I can tell you that I have had my Olympus/IO for 9 days now and my Horizon has the XDMI port and for my ears it is without doubt the best digital sound I have ever heard. If you don't own the Olympus/IO there is no need for your Horizon to be ordered with the XDMI port.

Do a search using our search engine at the top right of the page and search from June 1/2023 through Jan 31/2024 and you will find multiple posts from Emile re XDMI. It is proprietary and thus there is nothing I can share with you but I can also say that I have done a careful comparison using USB from Olympus/IO to Horizon vs XDMI from Olympus/IO to Horizon and the difference to my ears was startling. I have a $15K Masterbult Ultra USB cable that will be sold by me as I just cant listen any more via USB. This is of course one man's story and as the saying goes YMMV

 

[plasmod3]

I thought this explained it very well

"Horizon360 is our first ever improvement of our flagship Horizon DAC since its creation 3 years ago.This move is mainly enforced by the chip availability limitations. When our “magic” chip got almost depleted and also we started working on Taiko Olympus XDMI interface - we had to decide to make major changes and eventually find a different chip. After searching the whole world for it and after endless experiments and prototyping that took 2 years - we arrived at a design that sounds better than the original Horizon with the same sound signature that we are famous for. We decided to give the project a green light and we considered it worthy of calling it the new name - Horizon360.
Business-wise, the original plan was just to overcome the parts shortage but as the Taiko Olympus story evolved, we saw a huge opportunity there. Since the Olympus is challenging the status quo of the digital music industry, we joined that process by adopting the Olympus XDMI as the first DAC manufacturer in the world. That is nice, but the market for Olympus is a limited one, by both factors of price as well as their supply output. Therefore we wanted to give to all the people who will NOT HAVE the Taiko Olympus a nice boost in sound quality when the Horizon is used with whatever server / streamer people might have. That means effectively that we put a 2 year research and development effort into improving USB and i2S and S/PDIF or AES/EBU inputs.
The new conversion chip required a completely new, “blank sheet” PCB design, with new inputs, new receiver, new power supply, new grounding, new multiplexing, new firmware and software that controls the conversion process. The main differences (except increased sound quality) are: i2S via HDMI doesn’t need master clock and will work off 3-wire connection - versus typical 4-wire before. That in turns may lead to offering an optional 3xBNC/i2S connection - BY FAR the best digital audio signal connection of the whole hi-fi industry. Better than RJ45, AES/EBU, HDMI, SPDIF, TOSLINK and any other you can name.

DSD now can be configured as 1024x versus 512x before (some of you will be thrilled) however for our internal reasons we decided to keep the maximum at 512x for the foreseeable future. The same goes for

PCM1536kHz sampling rate - the fastest in the industry.
PCM is now set at 768 kHz.
Taiko XDMI interface is now built-in and embedded in the design. Ev

For Taiko Extreme - the sound quality of USB difference will be magnificent. (as well as for the other non-Taiko sources)
The name Horizon360 was suggested by our experience with the first prototype sound: someone commented - WOW, this is like old Horizon only it is a 360 degrees now - meaning - the experience is much more immersive and three-dimensional. It is sort of like the actual horizon when you are on the ocean.
We decided to handle our precious flagship DAC with extreme care and not risk any unnecessary changes just for changes. We left the same tubes, same output circuits, same chassis and display. We wanted to make sure that Horizon remains Horizon and when we are asked - we will answer with confidence that the new one is BETTER not just different and if you liked the H1 - you will love the H360 changes undeniably !

The list of differences versus Horizon-1:
1. New digital engine with new circuit and new parts
2. DSD 1024x vs 512x (not yet enabled)
3. Pcm 1520 vs 760 kHz (not yet enabled)
4. Two i2s ports: HDMI and RJ45 plus a possibility of an optional third “3xBNC” i2S port
5. No need for external clocks signal - a 3-way i2S is all we need now 6. Taiko XDMI link input port built in
7. Improved power transformers - 4 versus 3 before
8. Open path for next 20 years of upgrades
Horizon 1 in its original form will be phased out during the month of August 2024 and the remaining parts will be shelved for the future service needs.
The upgrade service will be offered starting from September 1 and only through the Dealer network.
You can distinguish visually the new version by the front panel logo containing 360 element as well as the rear panel description"

Lukasz Fikus

As for XDMI , it is a completely new interface designed by Taiko and if you do a search here in our search box, you will find Emile's description and by all accounts it merits hearing. I can tell you that I have had my Olympus/IO for 9 days now and my Horizon has the XDMI port and for my ears it is without doubt the best digital sound I have ever heard. If you don't own the Olympus/IO there is no need for your Horizon to be ordered with the XDMI port.

Do a search using our search engine at the top right of the page and search from June 1/2023 through Jan 31/2024 and you will find multiple posts from Emile re XDMI. It is proprietary and thus there is nothing I can share with you but I can also say that I have done a careful comparison using USB from Olympus/IO to Horizon vs XDMI from Olympus/IO to Horizon and the difference to my ears was startling. I have a $15K Masterbult Ultra USB cable that will be sold by me as I just cant listen any more via USB. This is of course one man's story and as the saying goes YMMV

Curious Steve will Masterbuilt make a xdmi cable?

 

[steve williams]

Curious Steve will Masterbuilt make a xdmi cable?

Good question Ian. I honestly don't know. The KBL XDMI cable out of Poland has two versions $3K and $4K. XDMI is so new that TBH my bet is cable manufacturers have never heard of it