"Long-Term Equipment Loans: A Win-Win for Everyone" by Robert Harley, The Absolute Sound

[Amir]

why will I be offended? I am not reading your critique I started and gave up too many strawman arguments. You can make up any point and argue against it. You keep saying you want to learn but instead you keep telling people how things should be.

I told I am not Expert and I want to learn from Experts (like ddk) , I did not say I want to learn from Audio Press.

I told most Audio Reviews are useless for me and when I get Other Reactions then I decided to descibe why I do not trust most Audio press.

you told me Michael Fremer is one of few good audio reviewers and I have wrote about his review .

 

[bonzo75]

I told I am not Expert and I want to learn from Experts not from Audio Press.

yes but if you are not an expert how do you decide who is? Pick someone randomly you like? Someone who has heard one component you like? Two? Your friend or someone’s friend? How are you going to navigate all the noise, agendas, etc and judge if you don’t have expertise? Just because someone wears an audio press badge or doesn’t? Btw, I don’t like a lot of the press myself but that is besides the point.

 

[microstrip]

I told I am not Expert and I want to learn from Experts (like ddk) , I did not say I want to learn from Audio Press.

I told most Audio Reviews are useless for me and when I get Other Reactions then I decided to descibe why I do not trust most Audio press.

you told me Michael Fremer is one of few good audio reviewers and I have wrote about his review .

It is nice to have your opinions on WBF, but you should list in your signature that you are a dealer and which brands you carry. Members should clearly know about it.

 

[andromedaaudio]

guys i m working on it , im studiying this book

 

[andromedaaudio]

yes but if you are not an expert how do you decide who is?

First follow the money .
Secondly past experience.

Works fine in the financial sector regarding filtering out the good versus the bad.

Audio is a matter of taste , i dont need somebody to tell me what to like or not to like or what i should do with my money.

 

[Gregadd]

But you do need a menu.

 

[andromedaaudio]

But you do need a menu.

I dont read the menus anymore due to " past experiences "

Best option :try at home, i have tried may be 30 amps over the years in my system
Second option : dealer shows , other audiophiles systems and audioshows in that way you dont need any menus to go by .
Just a bit of travelling / going around.
But the fact is that brick and mortar shops are disappearing / or have turned into only by appointment shops .
When i started in high end there were quit a few high end shops where you could just walk in and have listen , a lot of them have disappeared

And if you ended up buying something you didnt like in the long run then there is only yourself to blame

 

[andromedaaudio]

One group / person can off course then accuse the other of having no taste at all , so they need help with an accompanying menu .

Thats were basically all forum discussions end up into in some sort
One group blaming the other for not agreeing , basically saying the other has no taste .

 

[Al M.]

One group / person can off course then accuse the other of having no taste at all , so they need help with an accompanying menu .

Thats were basically all forum discussions end up into in some sort
One group blaming the other for not agreeing , basically saying the other has no taste .

Fortunately not all forum discussions, and not all blame others for not agreeing. So it's not that bad. But the absolutists tend to have a loud voice.

 

[Amir]

yes but if you are not an expert how do you decide who is? Pick someone randomly you like? Someone who has heard one component you like? Two? Your friend or someone’s friend? How are you going to navigate all the noise, agendas, etc and judge if you don’t have expertise? Just because someone wears an audio press badge or doesn’t? Btw, I don’t like a lot of the press myself but that is besides the point.

Expert vs Non-Expert Audiophiles

An Expert Audiophile does not change any audio component in his chain before understanding two things:

1 - what aspect of the sound should be better
2 - exactly what thing (or things) in audio chain or system setup or room or AC quality or ... could improve that aspect of the sound without any drawback

When Expert Audiophiles listen to an audio system they do not judge any Audio component before having an accurate analyse . Expert Audiophiles have right conclusions about audio components and their opinion does not change every 4 month.
If you see an Audiophile change his system every 6 month then he does not have right analyse/conclusion about his sound.

Expert Audiophiles could properly setup your system to have so much better sound.

The important key is Expert Audiophiles have more experince in Analysing a system. If the problem is from speaker position an expert audiophile does not change his DAC or ...

Expert audiophiles know more about better sound and they avoid using any thing that color the sound (like ac filters).

Another example is Expert Audiophiles do not trade off dynamics for having blacker background or better soundstage.

Only Expert Audiophiles can help us to have better sound.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Expert vs Non-Expert Audiophiles

An Expert Audiophile does not change any audio component in his chain before understanding two things:

1 - what aspect of the sound should be better
2 - exactly what thing (or things) in audio chain or system setup or room or AC quality or ... could improve that aspect of the sound without any drawback

When Expert Audiophiles listen to an audio system they do not judge any Audio component before having an accurate analyse . Expert Audiophiles have right conclusions about audio components and their opinion does not change every 4 month.
If you see an Audiophile change his system every 6 month then he does not have right analyse/conclusion about his sound.

Expert Audiophiles could properly setup your system to have so much better sound.

The important key is Expert Audiophiles have more experince in Analysing a system. If the problem is from speaker position an expert audiophile does not change his DAC or ...

Expert audiophiles know more about better sound and they avoid using any thing that color the sound (like ac filters).

Another example is Expert Audiophiles do not trade off dynamics for having blacker background or better soundstage.

Only Expert Audiophiles can help us to have better sound.

Did I write Post #235 in Portuguese? Why is this discussion still continuing on this thread?

Please move reviewer discussions somewhere else! Start a new thread!

 

[Amir]

Why is this discussion still continuing on this thread?

Please move reviewer discussions somewhere else! Start a new thread!

Ok I will

 

[bonzo75]

Expert vs Non-Expert Audiophiles

An Expert Audiophile does not change any audio component in his chain before understanding two things:

1 - what aspect of the sound should be better
2 - exactly what thing (or things) in audio chain or system setup or room or AC quality or ... could improve that aspect of the sound without any drawback

When Expert Audiophiles listen to an audio system they do not judge any Audio component before having an accurate analyse . Expert Audiophiles have right conclusions about audio components and their opinion does not change every 4 month.
If you see an Audiophile change his system every 6 month then he does not have right analyse/conclusion about his sound.

Expert Audiophiles could properly setup your system to have so much better sound.

The important key is Expert Audiophiles have more experince in Analysing a system. If the problem is from speaker position an expert audiophile does not change his DAC or ...

Expert audiophiles know more about better sound and they avoid using any thing that color the sound (like ac filters).

Another example is Expert Audiophiles do not trade off dynamics for having blacker background or better soundstage.

Only Expert Audiophiles can help us to have better sound.

my point is if you keep saying you are not an expert and here to learn why do you keep telling people how things are?

 

[picears]

After over 14 pages of comment in this thread I think I have concluded that while the original issue raised by Ron is important, it is also in the process of becoming OBE.

Many of us have moved onto other means of gathering information than the audiophile printed press.

And when I watch videos it is clear that, for example (not to pick on them), how uncomfortable TAS reviewers are in front of a camera (save for Fremer's recent videos, as he seems more natural in front of a camera.)

If I want objective analysis of an audio subject I'll turn turn to The Journal of the Audio Engineering Society (or an IEEE journal, etc.)

Trade journals with loaned equipment had a role for a few decades, in making certain topics and companies popular, but I think the winds are now blowing in the direction of videos by the consumers/users/hobbyists. And store owners need to have a presence online too that drive interest (see Audio Excellence in Canada, for example).

Not to pick on TAS (though it may seem so), but I looked today at Harley's video on the Alexia V. It strikes me as an advertisement (the Wilson guy was there), and nothing more. Adrian at Audio Excellence OTOH, even as a dealer, already gave a reasonable length review.

The kids these days use Tik Tok much more than Youtube, but for us old folks Youtube is still the preferred source of information.

So if dealers and our fellow hobbyists are putting up videos of substance, the legacy-print review system, complete with long-term loans, don't seem so relevant.

And with decreasing relevance, I suspect the long-term loans will fall out of fashion.

 

[PeterA]

my point is if you keep saying you are not an expert and here to learn why do you keep telling people how things are?

Amir knows what he knows and wants to share it. He also understands that he can learn something from people like ddk. It is not much different from others here. He just admits it.

 

[bonzo75]

Amir knows what he knows and wants to share it. He also understands that he can learn something from people like ddk. It is not much different from others here. He just admits it.

No he dictates all over the forum each time stating he is just here to learn. I guess in your mind everyone who likes Lamm and ddk know what they are doing no matter how irritating and clueless they are

 

[PeterA]

No he dictates all over the forum each time stating he is just here to learn. I guess in your mind everyone who likes Lamm and ddk know what they are doing no matter how irritating and clueless they are

That is not it at all Bonzo. Anyone can buy LAMM. It is learning how to partner it with other gear and how to set up the system from grounding cable gauge to cartridge set up that helps the systems sound the way they do. Ddk is just an example of someone who has experience and knowledge. Do you really disagree?

I find Amir’s critique of typical reviews quite interesting. They make sense to me and are a refreshing perspective. He has taken the time and given the thought to understanding the issues with these reviews and he is sharing those opinions with us. If you think he is clueless, just ignore his posts. He is not violating any terms of service and this is an audio forum for the free and open sharing of ideas. You can certainly tell us where his critiques are wrong in your opinion.

 

[Salectric]

After over 14 pages of comment in this thread I think I have concluded that while the original issue raised by Ron is important, it is also in the process of becoming OBE.

Many of us have moved onto other means of gathering information than the audiophile printed press.

And when I watch videos it is clear that, for example (not to pick on them), how uncomfortable TAS reviewers are in front of a camera (save for Fremer's recent videos, as he seems more natural in front of a camera.)

If I want objective analysis of an audio subject I'll turn turn to The Journal of the Audio Engineering Society (or an IEEE journal, etc.)

Trade journals with loaned equipment had a role for a few decades, in making certain topics and companies popular, but I think the winds are now blowing in the direction of videos by the consumers/users/hobbyists. And store owners need to have a presence online too that drive interest (see Audio Excellence in Canada, for example).

Not to pick on TAS (though it may seem so), but I looked today at Harley's video on the Alexia V. It strikes me as an advertisement (the Wilson guy was there), and nothing more. Adrian at Audio Excellence OTOH, even as a dealer, already gave a reasonable length review.

The kids these days use Tik Tok much more than Youtube, but for us old folks Youtube is still the preferred source of information.

So if dealers and our fellow hobbyists are putting up videos of substance, the legacy-print review system, complete with long-term loans, don't seem so relevant.

And with decreasing relevance, I suspect the long-term loans will fall out of fashion.

I, for one, hope videos are not the future. I can’t stand the thought of watching someone talking about equipment. It’s just too inefficient. I can read a lot faster than he can talk.

 

[Lee]

I, for one, hope videos are not the future. I can’t stand the thought of watching someone talking about equipment. It’s just too inefficient. I can read a lot faster than he can talk.

They are not mutually exclusive. You can have videos for product introductions and print reviews for more in-depth analysis.

 

[Amir]

That is not it at all Bonzo. Anyone can buy LAMM. It is learning how to partner it with other gear and how to set up the system from grounding cable gauge to cartridge set up that helps the systems sound the way they do. Ddk is just an example of someone who has experience and knowledge. Do you really disagree?

I find Amir’s critique of typical reviews quite interesting. They make sense to me and are a refreshing perspective. He has taken the time and given the thought to understanding the issues with these reviews and he is sharing those opinions with us. If you think he is clueless, just ignore his posts. He is not violating any terms of service and this is an audio forum for the free and open sharing of ideas. You can certainly tell us where his critiques are wrong in your opinion.

Thank you Peter,

I really enjoyed when I read David (@ddk) comments here and I have called him to thanks him. Before reading this forum I did not know David and now I am so happy for finding a good freind like David.
I regard David and his knowledge, very very few audiophiles play high end game at professional level like David. I am really sorry because David is not here and again I would like to ask WBF admins to invite David to this forum.