"Long-Term Equipment Loans: A Win-Win for Everyone" by Robert Harley, The Absolute Sound

[Elliot G.]

I don’t see how you can make money buying and selling like Jay. If you want to buy a magico for example, I’m sure you can get close to 50% off. He would have to buy it at least 60% off to make money. Who is going to sell it that cheap?

It is unfortunate that so many that comment on forums and youtube don’t understand the business of audio. I’m not saying this to be combative or to be condescending but rather to try to explain how this business works.
There are too many outlets for product. There are too many products sold to “dealers “ who can’t sell them. There are too many “dealers” that are hobbyists and not business people or not familiar with how the audio industry works.

People who deal in the “ used” second hand and dealer overstocked business are mostly buying gear that was unsold by the original dealer and they need cash so they move it sideways at either their demo cost or below ( so they have cash to do other things like pay their bills) or gear that has been traded in.
It is very possible to make a good living in the second hand market. You buy low to sell at discounts off of retail

 

[hopkins]

It is unfortunate that so many that comment on forums and youtube don’t understand the business of audio. I’m not saying this to be combative or to be condescending but rather to try to explain how this business works.

I don't know what and who you are referring to, but there are a multitude of actors in this business, and as far as I can see this topic is not about distributors and retailers but reviewers.

 

[Another Johnson]

I don't know what and who you are referring to, but there are a multitude of actors in this business, and as far as I can see this topic is not about distributors and retailers but reviewers.

@Elliot G. makes a good point. These assorted players are inextricably tied together.
There are no doubt differences from country to country. It is a complex business with unique issues compared to commodity style products and pricing.

 

[Elliot G.]

Some day some time somewhere i would be happy to discuss how it all works but this is not the place

 

[Jeffy]

It is unfortunate that so many that comment on forums and youtube don’t understand the business of audio. I’m not saying this to be combative or to be condescending but rather to try to explain how this business works.
There are too many outlets for product. There are too many products sold to “dealers “ who can’t sell them. There are too many “dealers” that are hobbyists and not business people or not familiar with how the audio industry works.

People who deal in the “ used” second hand and dealer overstocked business are mostly buying gear that was unsold by the original dealer and they need cash so they move it sideways at either their demo cost or below ( so they have cash to do other things like pay their bills) or gear that has been traded in.
It is very possible to make a good living in the second hand market. You buy low to sell at discounts off of retail

What a slimy business model if this is true?

 

[Elliot G.]

What a slimy business model if this is true?

Its true!

 

[caesar]

He has been a "pump and dump" guy from the beginning , promoting something and selling it used right away, he is a used seller that uses Youtube to promote his products !

didn't the guy recently have wilson wamm jr xvx speakers? who sold them to him?

 

[Another Johnson]

What a slimy business model if this is true?

It’s not slimy. It’s just opportunistic on both sides of the table. Most businesses in expensive hobbies are like this.

 

[Kingrex]

Hifi is indeed quit different.
You use your ears , i have never seen somebody buy a house or a car with his ears .

I spent a lot of time listening to the airline and road traffic around the house we just bought.

I sort of grilled a good friend over his buying a house near an airport. I was brash enough to say you can still get out. Gosh I hope he doesn't find out its too much, to late.

 

[Dierkx1]

Lots of words could be written as to the why of this, changing priorities and a shrinking customer base not the least of which.

Speaking for myself, I’d invested a fair amount in an acoustic remodel of an existing space in my home before I became affiliated with Rhapsody.Audio, so the benefit for those who visit they get to hear components in a well sorted room.

As its my home I ask for an appointment so I can do all I can to make the visit as pleasant as I can for my guest. And unlike Bob’s place in Brooklyn I don’t have several rooms so if a guest wants to hear multiple speakers I can explain it takes me about an hour to move one pair out and another pair in. (I don’t like having other speakers in-room and shuffling and properly setting up 250 lb speakers does take a little effort.)

Not the walk-in and listen experience of the past — hopefully much better. I do go out of my way to make it a positive experience even if what is on offer turns out to be not exactly to my guests personal taste. (Silly guests!)

I called a dealer last week who told me that there would be a $250 charge to set up an appointment to listen to speakers I was interested in auditioning. The fee would be applied towards the purchase. I haven't interacted with this dealer in the past. Is this a common practice?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think it is disrespectful to Jay to discuss him here when he cannot respond.

I think any discussion involving Jay should be conducted via comments on his YouTube channel.

 

[Lagonda]

didn't the guy recently have wilson wamm jr xvx speakers? who sold them to him?

I don't know. I try not to watch his videos, they hurt my head !

 

[Jeffy]

So you can call a home style dealer or a small store and buy a new Chronosonix or other items at half off if the dealer is starving for money. I now do see a business for this where you call every shop in the US and start buying and selling these products as a business.

 

[Joe Whip]

I called a dealer last week who told me that there would be a $250 charge to set up an appointment to listen to speakers I was interested in auditioning. The fee would be applied towards the purchase. I haven't interacted with this dealer in the past. Is this a common practice?

More and more common I think because folks are using dealers to listen and buying elsewhere for less money.

 

[Another Johnson]

So you can call a home style dealer or a small store and buy a new Chronosonix or other items at half off if the dealer is starving for money. I now do see a business for this where you call every shop in the US and start buying and selling these products as a business.

It’s not that simple. If he were going to discount and ship, he would be in serious violation of his agreement with Wilson and they would cut him off. If he were already going out of business, it wouldn’t matter to him. But if he hoped to get other product in the future, he’d be shooting himself in the foot.

What is more common is that guys cruise Audiogon, Reverb, eBay etc and make “low ball offers.” If something retails for $10k, often sells used for less than $5k, and a hobbiest is offering it for $5k, a “low baller” might offer him $2.5k with the hope he just needs some quick cash and is anxious to sell.
How many ads have you seen where the lister says “low ball offers will be ignored?”

The other thing that I see is that dealers will low ball on a trade, (or maybe just build the trade higher and the real discount lower). The the dealer funnels the trade over to a third party lister who puts it on eBay or Audiogon for a fee.

Capitalism promotes creativity. Nevertheless I think a guy who calls dealer after dealer asking for their unwanted inventory would soon be considered a pariah.

Ren Ferguson, former head luthier at Gibson’s Bozeman operations, said that there were guys who called every dealer asking for a particular model because they were legitimately trying to find one that was just not available. So lots of orders would come in for some model because some of the dealers would take the call seriously and decide to have one for stock. Maybe one guy calling 30 dealers would precipitate six orders for the model.

 

[Another Johnson]

I called a dealer last week who told me that there would be a $250 charge to set up an appointment to listen to speakers I was interested in auditioning. The fee would be applied towards the purchase. I haven't interacted with this dealer in the past. Is this a common practice?

I don’t blame him. He may have to hire labor to set up the demo, and if he doesn’t have employees, $250 is chump change for skilled brawny talent to set up and take down.

See post #692 above.

 

[Bobvin]

I called a dealer last week who told me that there would be a $250 charge to set up an appointment to listen to speakers I was interested in auditioning. The fee would be applied towards the purchase. I haven't interacted with this dealer in the past. Is this a common practice?

I have certainly never considered charging anyone to audition components though maybe I ought to? More common for me to have some snacks available (charcuterie board) and offer a nice glass of wine (I won‘t pour something I wouldn’t like, and I enjoy nice wine). This allows an opportunity to learn about my guests tastes and priorities and a little bit of their audiophile history. We then can move to the music room and enjoy listening.

I chose to get involved with Rhapsod.Audio because sharing music is something I greatly enjoy — watching someone’s toes start tapping and head start bobbing, or a smile creep across their face. The visit might be to audition gear but I hope becomes a fun experience. I’m retired now so this is my retirement “side hustle” I do it for fun and socializing.

When Jeff @ Tone Audio visited to hear the Alsyvox Botticelli X, he commented in his review:

“Mr. Vineyard provides the most engaging dealer presentation I”ve ever had the opportunity to experience. He’s done it right with a purpose built room that sounds fantastic. This is truly the way to experience premium audio.”

 

[gleeds]

.

I think it is disrespectful to Jay to discuss him here when he cannot respond.

I think any discussion involving Jay should be conducted via comments on his YouTube channel.

I agree with Ron on this.

 

[bonzo75]

So you can call a home style dealer or a small store and buy a new Chronosonix or other items at half off if the dealer is starving for money. I now do see a business for this where you call every shop in the US and start buying and selling these products as a business.

Actually, some of the dealers know whom to call when they have to offload for a quick buck. There are some huge used goods dealers, and/or big clients. So it is a service some dealers need too

 

[Elliot G.]

So you can call a home style dealer or a small store and buy a new Chronosonix or other items at half off if the dealer is starving for money. I now do see a business for this where you call every shop in the US and start buying and selling these products as a business.

thats not exactly it but you are not faroff. There are a few people in and around the audio industry that buy and sell used gear. Some of this gear, most of this gear comes from dealers.They may have been traded in or they may have been inventory that the dealer could not sell and they unload it on these second hand dealers. This is the reality , it is not an indictment of those that do it , thye are performing a service however this behavior has changed the entire dealer landscape and allowed more and more people in the business that are less experienced and qualified IMO. Much of what is shown on AG is dealer stuff and some is disguised as to not look like they are dealers.
I sell most of my trade ins wholesale since I don't want to be in the used equipment business as I cant provide the proper level of support for things I am not a dealer for and that is important to me and my clients. One last thought these dealers thatdo this call the wholesalers moreoften than they call them.
Jay buys and sells used gear and that is part of how he makes a living. Only he can tell you where it comes from but its not hard to understand.