"Long-Term Equipment Loans: A Win-Win for Everyone" by Robert Harley, The Absolute Sound

[Audire]

I believe the standard here in the good ole US of A is innocent until proven quilty.

Yes in a criminal trail, but this ain’t that. My default mode is trust but verify. If there’s no evidence, then nothing can be verified. The ongoing MoFi lawsuits are an example of what happens when trusting w/o verifying. It hurts the entire community. And the magazines that aren’t transparent with how they do things are discrediting themselves.

Taking a hearing test will not show that one knows how to listen. Ask your wifes haha.
Seriously listening is a learned skill , like wine tasting, etc.
I dont see how a hearing test changes anything.

I may be incorrect, but last I heard one needs to be able to properly hear before they may properly listen. If one can’t pass a hearing test, then they shouldn’t be making reviews. While we can surmise plenty about hiding one‘s results, if they pass why hide it? Hearing tests for a reviewer I see as very important.

I do however think that wanting to learn someone's qualifications and experience as well as seeing pictures of their listening area/space/rooms is valuable in trying to understand thier observations.

Agreed.

Again however knowing what the space was that was used in the review, along with the parameters of said review and the reviewers qualifications clearly would help in understanding the review and perhaps how you can interpet the results.

Agreed.

 

[Amir]

I looked up "trolling" in the dictionary, and I found this post.

These comments are so ludicrous and grotesquely unfair that they literally by their own terms prove themselves to be false.

1) Please provide evidence that "most audio reviewers do not have a properly set up high-performance audio system."

2) Please provide evidence that "most audio viewers have shallow judgment."

3) Please provide evidence that "most audio reviewers do not know about how to review a component."

4) Please provide evidence that "most audio reviewers do not know about sound quality."

5) Please provide evidence that "most audio magazines receive money for writing positive reviews."

This is an extremely serious allegation. No intelligent, serious and responsible person would allege this without having strong evidence. Please disclose your evidence to us.

Ron , I will answer to all of your question and I will introduce some examples.
Please let me time to write my answer

thank you

 

[Audire]

The problem is that your post is disingenuous, as your questions, unlike my questions asking Amir to substantiate his allegations, are largely rhetorical. The burden of proof is on the person making the allegations. You now are asking people to substantiate allegations which they never made.

The fact that it is impossible to answer your questions actually highlights the absurdity of Amir's original claims.

Ron,

By your very questions you implied there were things you could prove to discredit Amir’s assertions. But now you say that you can’t answer my questions, which we already knew. That’s the reason I posed them.

 

[Amir]

The problem is that your post is disingenuous, as your questions, unlike my questions asking Amir to substantiate his allegations, are largely rhetorical. The burden of proof is on the person making the allegations. You now are asking people to substantiate allegations which they never made.

The fact that it is impossible to answer your questions actually highlights the absurdity of Amir's original claims.

Ron
Take it easy , you and me and all other are enjoying audio game and there is no need to war.
I prefer you find me peaceful . Just wait and I will back you to prove you most audio reviews are wrong.

 

[Elliot G.]

Yes in a criminal trail, but this ain’t that. My default mode is trust but verify. If there’s no evidence, then nothing can be verified. The ongoing MoFi lawsuits are an example of what happens when trusting w/o verifying. It hurts the entire community. And the magazines that aren’t transparent with how they do things are discrediting themselves.



I may be incorrect, but last I heard one needs to be able to properly hear before they may properly listen. If one can’t pass a hearing test, then they shouldn’t be making reviews. While we can surmise plenty about hiding one‘s results, if they pass why hide it? Hearing tests for a reviewer I see as very important.


Agreed.

Agreed.

Lets asssume you are correct and that one must pass a hearing test to become a reviewer it still doesnt mean that you can listen, are experienced , can write in understandable terms, have a clue of what you are doing, have a decent space and have any qualifications. Does one need to take a hearing test to buy a system next? Consumers need to take some responsibility in their own actions. No one is forcing you to read these reviews nor act on them.
I don't see that there is a reason to castigate an entire Industry because of you distrust issues.
Personally I find this type of stuff offensive to many people that I know and respect. I dont want to get into some name calling fight with you all I can tell you is that you are incorrect. You are entitled to make you own decisions of what you read, what you buy and what you like however those that disagree are not by definition wrong nor corrupt.
There is good and bad in every business and industry but that doesnt make everyone corrupt, every publication a rag and that you are always correct,
Elliot

 

[Amir]

Ron,

By your very questions you implied there were things you could prove to discredit Amir’s assertions. But now you say that you can’t answer my questions, which we already knew. That’s the reason I posed them.

Your questions are valid but They do not answer your questions because it is not easy.
I will post my answers and even If they send me a review from TAS or Stereophile or ... then I will share my ideas.

I hope these topic be useful for most of us

 

[Elliot G.]

Your questions are valid but They do not answer your questions because it is not easy.
I will post my answers and even If they send me a review from TAS or Stereophile or ... then I will share my ideas.

I hope these topic be useful for most of us

https://www.bendingwaveusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/The-Absolute-Sound-Review.pdf

so tell me Sir what is wrong with this review? Since you never heard them, never were in his room, dont know Robert nor me? don't owen any of the gear ,,,,
I'm very curious to understand what is wrong.
Please...

 

[Audire]

Lets asssume you are correct and that one must pass a hearing test to become a reviewer it still doesnt mean that you can listen, are experienced , can write in understandable terms, have a clue of what you are doing, have a decent space and have any qualifications.

I never said someone doesn’t need to know how to listen before they make reviews. But I do assert they first need to be able to hear properly. As far as the other qualifications you’ve listed I agree.

Does one need to take a hearing test to buy a system next?

I think it would be wise if a person takes a hearing test before they purchase a high-end system. If they can only properly hear what a 5k speaker can do, then why spend 100k?

 

[Lagonda]

I never said someone doesn’t need to know how to listen before they make reviews. But I do assert they first need to be able to hear properly. As far as the other qualifications you’ve listed I agree.



I think it would be wise if a person takes a hearing test before they purchase a high-end system. If they can only properly hear what a 5k speaker can do, then why spend 100k?

I will be listing a lot of equipment in the classified section after this !

 

[Elliot G.]

I never said someone doesn’t need to know how to listen before they make reviews. But I do assert they first need to be able to hear properly. As far as the other qualifications you’ve listed I agree.



I think it would be wise if a person takes a hearing test before they purchase a high-end system. If they can only properly hear what a 5k speaker can do, then why spend 100k?

Did you?

 

[Audire]

https://www.bendingwaveusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/The-Absolute-Sound-Review.pdf

so tell me Sir what is wrong with this review? Since you never heard them, never were in his room, dont know Robert nor me? don't owen any of the gear ,,,,
I'm very curious to understand what is wrong.
Please...

Interesting review. Perhaps I missed it, but the main deficiency I see with it is very little is stated about the room, for instance its size and how it is constructed. IMO these factors would greatly impact the sound heard and commented upon in the review. I as a reader would like to know these facts …

 

[Audire]

Did you?

Yes at two different places, once before the A3s and then again before I moved from A3s to M3s. I receive one every year …

 

[Audire]

That's begging the question. There are people who NEED to spend large amounts on their installations, matter of pride and all that. What's more pathetic than a multi millionaire with a boom box.

Also, they support high craft. One can't deny that the products are awesome. Years ago I got an invitation to the launch of a SiCon Valley mogul's new mansion, and he was really only interested in displaying the magnificence and cost of his home theater and edifice stereo system.

The Grey Poupon country club set will always consult each other exclusively, and they have their own fashion conscious pied pipers for better or worse, like the business card contest in 'American Psycho'.

It makes the whole audio porn thing an embedded service industry. It all fulfills a role and a niche.

"Bertie, I think I can hear that you don't have an honest 1000 watts on that transient. You need at least 1500 watts."

"Winthrop, fetch me my golf clubs. I need to beat this impudent senseless for his slur on my system."

Well certainty people buy things for bragging rights, status, etc. But some take the hobby seriously and IMO they should spend their money wisely.

 

[Elliot G.]

Interesting review. Perhaps I missed it, but the main deficiency I see with it is very little is stated about the room, for instance its size and how it is constructed. IMO these factors would greatly impact the sound heard and commented upon in the review. I as a reader would like to know these facts …

Robert has stated and writen about his room in TAS before. There is also a video from the review and room pictures. The review was really posted for Amir since he can deconstruct all reviews https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/building-a-listening-room/ this is why one needs to do his homework before blowing up the place !

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Congratulations, that’s a great attempt to avoid an actual answer to the questions posed!

The problem with your statement is that so far you have provided absolutely no evidence to disprove anyone’s assertions.

Please answer the posed questions.

No thanks. I was simply trying to keep the discussion on the rails.

 

[Audire]

Robert has stated and writen about his room in TAS before. There is also a video from the review and room pictures. The review was really posted for Amir since he can deconstruct all reviews https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/building-a-listening-room/ this is why one needs to do his homework before blowing up the place !

Thanks for the link. He should include this link with his reviews …

 

[Elliot G.]

Thanks for the link. He should include this link with his reviews …

sometimes the "rags" have lots of information if you look at them I dont know if you are old enough to remember Roseann Roseannadanna "nevermind"
Like I said they all arent bad. Robert is a good one and a nice person as well. His room sounds really good. We got to hear the full blown XVX and subs before we tore it down and set up my stuff. It was interesting finally hearing them and in a good spot so to understand what they can do.

 

[Al M.]

https://www.bendingwaveusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/The-Absolute-Sound-Review.pdf

so tell me Sir what is wrong with this review? Since you never heard them, never were in his room, dont know Robert nor me? don't owen any of the gear ,,,,
I'm very curious to understand what is wrong.
Please...

Well written review. Based on it, I am not sure if the speaker would be completely to my taste (I prefer a less "lit up" upper midrange), but its musical characteristics seem well described, as much as this can be judged without having heard it. I can certainly get an enticing idea of how the speaker sounds. A musically convincing allowance of extra bloom in the bass by virtue of superior pitch definition and articulation is something that I can envision. The described dynamic mobility, liveliness and immediacy of the presentation, as well as a lack of dreaded "politeness", are something that would be right up my alley. I have certainly strived to maximize these characteristics in my system as much as possible within its confines.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me Jonathan Valin moves a fairly significant amount of high quality equipment through his listening room. That would seem to belie any claim that long term loan is his problem.

Seems , seems ...... full of seems ???


How are reviewers being paid actually ?
Per reviewed piece / monthly standard wage / allowance ?
Or do they have to hustle ...... keeping gear long term and hope everybody forgets about it so it can be sold for a reasonable price later ?
Make a buck or 2 on the side

 

[Gregadd]

i am tod there are time restrictions for resale on items afforded industry accommodation pricing. Of course you cannot sale items on loan.