Magico M3

awsmone

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Apr 7, 2014
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Thanks, Adam. I spoke with Jim early on in the room tuning process and he basically said he didn't think he could help me. I'm not sure what I said or did that caused that reaction. In any case, I've been working with a bunch of different people and am very happy with the current sound at my chair. 2' in any direction is a different story. That's why I have only one chair in the room, I guess ;-)
It sounds like your issues are related to fundamental resonances of the room, rather than the speakers

This may not go away with just moving the subs around

To me, I would, run the magico M 3 full range and run the subs very low crossover close to the lower end of the m3 pass band

Running subs at 110hz, means they will be effecting the midbass and probably having an effect in the mids timbre, and activating a lot of room modes with their power

True sub performance is below 40

Remember lowest note on double bass is 41 or 5 string 31

A speaker of the M3 quality should need no help in these frequencies, in a room your size

Thus should greatly reduce the perceived boom, this is exactly the set up I use, moving the subs freq over 40 u can hear the coloration higher up the frequencies in midbass and mids

Enjoy lovely system
 

Al M.

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Sep 10, 2013
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To me, I would, run the magico M 3 full range and run the subs very low crossover close to the lower end of the m3 pass band

Running subs at 110hz, means they will be effecting the midbass and probably having an effect in the mids timbre, and activating a lot of room modes with their power
Agree. I have monitors, and even in that situation such a high crossover as 110 Hz would be detrimental to the sound.

Of course, it also depends on the slope of the sub crossover. With my current REL Storm III, featuring a gentle slope, the crossover point is at about 40 Hz (when set higher, there's midbass boom). I'll get dual JL Audio Fathom 112v2 shortly, and the manufacturer in general, not just for monitors, suggests a crossover point of 80 Hz. That seems a bit high to me too, and probably I'll end up with something lower, we'll see.

A friend of mine crosses over his monitors to his subs digitally, and even with that steep slope (basically vertical fall from monitors and vertical rise from subs) the crossover point is just 60 Hz.
 
Mar 29, 2015
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It sounds like your issues are related to fundamental resonances of the room, rather than the speakers
Yes, you're absolutely right, it is room modes we've been fighting. I've been working with a pro studio designer and we measured the room at the listening chair to arrive at the proper cross-over and filters to try to reduce the room modes. We also worked with GIK to come up with room treatments to temper the room modes. From where I sit, it has been very successful. However, if I stand up and move to the turntable or to adjust something at the equipment rack, it gets very boomy. I think it is just a function of the room dimensions, which are not ideal. It doesn't bother me because I from where I listen, it sounds fine which shows the room treatment and filters seem to be working. However, it is not the kind of room that an audio club would enjoy - it's a one person room at this point.

Peter MacKay from Magico is scheduled to visit at the end of the month. I'll see what he suggests.
 

BMCG

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Oct 1, 2016
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Yes, you're absolutely right, it is room modes we've been fighting. I've been working with a pro studio designer and we measured the room at the listening chair to arrive at the proper cross-over and filters to try to reduce the room modes. We also worked with GIK to come up with room treatments to temper the room modes. From where I sit, it has been very successful. However, if I stand up and move to the turntable or to adjust something at the equipment rack, it gets very boomy. I think it is just a function of the room dimensions, which are not ideal. It doesn't bother me because I from where I listen, it sounds fine which shows the room treatment and filters seem to be working. However, it is not the kind of room that an audio club would enjoy - it's a one person room at this point.

Peter MacKay from Magico is scheduled to visit at the end of the month. I'll see what he suggests.
Apologies in advance if this is suggesting the obvious....but how does the imaging / sweet spot breadth vs boominess play without the subs?

Just wandering if less is better.....appreciate not the easiest to move the Q SUBS though...
 

Milt

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Feb 15, 2018
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For those living in the Midwest wishing to hear the M3 speakers, they are currently on display at F1 Audio in Palatine, IL. They will be there through March 1 when there will be a presentation by Peter Mackay from 5 to 9 PM. Also, Bill McKiegan will be present representing D'Agostino. Full disclosure, I am not the dealer but the future owner of the M3s.
 

Al M.

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Sep 10, 2013
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For those living in the Midwest wishing to hear the M3 speakers, they are currently on display at F1 Audio in Palatine, IL. They will be there through March 1 when there will be a presentation by Peter Mackay from 5 to 9 PM. Also, Bill McKiegan will be present representing D'Agostino. Full disclosure, I am not the dealer but the future owner of the M3s.
Peter Mackay does an awesome job at setting up speakers. I have heard his work at an S7 demo at Goodwin's High End a few years ago.
 

Milt

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Feb 15, 2018
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Glad to hear this. He will be setting up the M3s for me on March 2! Will be an interesting day.
Also, my understanding is that Magico will present the A3s only at Axpona and unfortunately not the M6 or M3.
 

PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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Glad to hear this. He will be setting up the M3s for me on March 2! Will be an interesting day.
Also, my understanding is that Magico will present the A3s only at Axpona and unfortunately not the M6 or M3.
That's interesting. Do you think the rest of the system will be the type found in a target A3 system or will it be with super high end/expensive gear like that found in systems driving the M3/M6?
 

Milt

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Feb 15, 2018
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I heard they were going to find electronics consistent with the price of the speakers as opposed to what they did last year with the S3 IIs and really high end Swiss electronics. Tentatively they may match with Hegel.
 
Mar 29, 2015
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Glad to hear this. He will be setting up the M3s for me on March 2! Will be an interesting day.
Also, my understanding is that Magico will present the A3s only at Axpona and unfortunately not the M6 or M3.
Peter is going to be busy. He is visiting me in DC the week of Feb 26 to set up my M3s and Q-Subs. I think I have the M3s is a very good spot, so it will be interesting to see what he does with them. The subs I know I need his help with.
 

GMKF

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Aug 15, 2017
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I have seen Hegel amp's at in the Magico-Factory-Showroom in companion with the A3's... Taken from the Soundstage review-they match nicely.

I'll think they will demo the A3's with Hegel amp's aswell
 

Folsom

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Oct 26, 2015
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I was listening to the M3's again, yesterday.

My opinion stands that they are really nice speakers. They seem to portray what the electronics feed them really quiet well. And they disappear rather well, as well. I believe those that don't like them have unrealistic expectations to behave like other speakers with the electronics they are use to. Alon isn't into the deficiencies of other speakers in design sense, so everyone may as well give up on trying to mix flavor combos that work on other speakers like Wilson.

But I can say after hearing them on different amplifiers, that they are a little particular for which amplifiers they like for reproducing bass well. They have to be forced into the real deep areas, despite having plenty of driver ability. This is probably due to a resonance conflict with the size & shape of the speaker cabinet (a little experimentation showed this could well be true). So the condition seems to be that you need to have an amp that matches well. That's no big deal, that has been true for countless speakers and amplifiers. Tubes are probably out, without flanking by some subs, or you may lack immersion quality a bit too much.

The last time I listened was with an Aqua Formula DAC, this time was the MSB Reference. While the Formula had some attributes I didn't want to see go, the MSB is overall a much more rich, pleasant, experience in this system. The placement in the soundstage was very good, easier to read, and everything in it was a bit larger in size.
 
Sep 1, 2013
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Chicago, IL
Seems mother nature decided I was not going to hear the M3's at Goodwin's this week while out in Boston for work :(. Was really looking forward to hearing them in a well setup listening room.
 
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bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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If in NY drop by at Rhapsody to listen to these on Vitus and jadis with techdas
 

PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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Seems mother nature decided I was not going to hear the M3's at Goodwin's this week while out in Boston for work :(. Was really looking forward to hearing them in a well setup listening room.
Too bad Jimmy. I heard the M3 there a couple of weeks ago. It was with Spectral/MIT/Basis and Benz. I listened to my own LPs. It was extremely memorable and the best audition I've had at Goodwins.
 

awsmone

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Apr 7, 2014
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PETER

Did you think the Spectral a good match with the magico ?

How do u think it compared with your magico and pass labs?

Interested as your a classical listener like me
 

PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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PETER

Did you think the Spectral a good match with the magico ?

How do u think it compared with your magico and pass labs?

Interested as your a classical listener like me
That's a great question and one that may cause quite a bit of discussion or disagreement among Magico fans, so I will tread lightly. I have only heard Spectral amps with Magico speakers at Goodwin's High End. They sounded especially good with the V2, Q1, and most recently with the M3. However, fellow member Ack does not like the Spectral/M3 combination in the large room there. The Q3s sounded fantastic with the massive Boulder 1000W amps in that room. Alon Wolf did not think that Spectral had the power to drive the Q3 in that large room. And Ack recently mentioned that the Spectrals shut down driving the M3 on demanding music. You can find his comments somewhere on WBF, perhaps this thread. I did not like Spectral with the Q7, Q5, S5. However, my impressions may be based on something other than the specific amp/speaker combination. The MIT cable settings have strongly affected the sound, as has the speaker set up and source component, so it is really hard for me to make broad statements about the Spectral/Magico pairing.

It is clear that in my own system I really like Pass/Magico, at least certain combinations. With my Mini IIs, the XA100.5 was underpowered. The XA160.5 was superb. It is also great now with my Q3s. I preferred the 160.5 to the 160.8 on my Minis, but I preferred the 160.8 to the 160.5 on MadFloyd's M Pro. The Pass XS series was heavenly on the M Pros and the best Pass/Magico combination I've heard.

I don't know much about the different Spectral models, but I do know something about the Pass models. Each has a different sound and bias into Class A and will match better or worse with specific speakers depending on the room, speaker load, and preferences of the listener. I know better the Class A, (XA) line than the Class A/B (X) line. I suspect that the Pass X line sounds more like Spectral, but I'm not really sure.

In general, I would say that Magico speakers are very transparent, especially the Q and M series, and perhaps the S series mark II, though I have not heard many of those. They allow one to hear clearly the differences between upstream components like amplifiers. Spectral/MIT has a different sound than Pass Labs. I have heard both amps sound fantastic with particular Magico speakers and both combinations have sounded very convincing to me using live classical performances at the BSO as a reference. The only way to know which is more to your taste is to try to audition them in person with your own music. I suspect others may feel more strongly about Spectral versus Pass than I do.
 

Folsom

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Oct 26, 2015
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Spectrals on the M3 are just too boring. I recently have heard them with VAC 450, Spectrals, and CH M1. The Spectrals were just "meh" on the M3's. The VAC's were lightish on bass but engaging and a pleasure. The CH M1 kind of gives it all, a very nice amp.
 

PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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North Shore of Boston
Spectrals on the M3 are just too boring. I recently have heard them with VAC 450, Spectrals, and CH M1. The Spectrals were just "meh" on the M3's. The VAC's were lightish on bass but engaging and a pleasure. The CH M1 kind of gives it all, a very nice amp.
Folsom, could you describe the rest of the Spectral/M3 system and more specifically what you mean by "boring"?
 

awsmone

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Apr 7, 2014
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Canberra Australia
Thanks Peter for your comprehensive response

It would seem, that the magicos need a lot of current for the impedance and efficiency of their bass,

Interesting, that u found XA 160 as least necessary, that’s a lot of amp

My room in quite big, so at least this much then.....hmmm
 

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