Magnepans vs. Electrostatics. What is the better technology? What do you prefer?

[BobM]

I think the prototype I saw was for 2.5. Hardly any price difference though, he has 10 inch woofers now, you can change the crossover and the gain from the back easily. You can have any finish you like. For me they are much better than the Logan Summits I owned and the Quads and the Maggies I have heard. These are superbly dynamic. You can read more about them if you google, there are some show reviews, and the audiocircle forum has some fans. Bob M here has heard them as well

Yup, huge bang for the $ on the GT's. Plus you will be dealing with one heck of a great guy (Greg) who will stand behind his product. I remember the first time I heard them at a show. I was dragging everyone I could find into that room to hear one of the best sounds at the show, and that was just Greg's initial prototype. They have improved mucho since then.

 

[Whatmore]

Well finally, managed to contact the dealer/distributor for AA ribbons. Con Dikios runs the place and I've got an audition set up for 3pm. He advises that I start with the Omricon and work my way up to the Omega. He's not probably aware that I've already listened to the Omega with massive vtl monoblocks.

Let's see how this demo goes and hope to report back with something remarkable!

Cheers, RJ

Look forward to your impressions

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Analysis Ribbons

Look forward to your impressions

Hey Trevor,

I have posted my reply onto a different thread, ref Analysis ribbons.
They were superb!
Cheers, RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Good evening gentlemen and any future ladies;

Just got back from a fantastic audition at yet another chappy's place who happens to have the mighty MG20.7 from Magnepan. Infact this chap is a huge cricket fan, and too bad England lost their opening ICC world cup cricket match to our Aussie's! Can't wait till Sri Lanka takes over, then we'll be talking real cricket!

Ok, so this was a very interesting one indeed. Plenty of dynamics, awesome tight natural bass, extended smooth highs and a wonderful ribbon midrange. Plenty of gusto, rhythm, focus, tremendous slam and equally fantastic depth in soundstage compared to my Quads. Very overly excited about this system, and completely forgot about all other panel types...
The only problem with this set up, it really prefers mono-blocks. The mono amps used were the MC275, just rated at moderate watts per channel, drove the MG20.7's to glorious levels, absolutely effortless. The system was a full range McIntosh all out assault, starting from front end with a C2500 as the control unit, and a very nice MCD1100 SACD player, he also had a huge integrated MA8000, which was equally capable of driving the maggies, but with the tubes had a magic to the liveliness to the overall presence.

The other thing is the MG20.7's need a fairly large room to open up, and with plenty of space around the back and sides. They were placed approx. 6ft away from the front wall, with around 8ft apart with the tweeters placed on the inside, and about 2ft away from sidewalls. The listening position was around 16ft away, (panels were placed exactly 50% of the listening distance apart), and the sound was bloody fantastic! The speakers also simply disappear, a real treat to listen to such a well laid out system, and zero listening fatigue.

The other minor problem is this chap is a bit grumpy, doesn't like too many people auditioning his stuff... guess I can't blame him since things are being stolen these days during a crashing global economy. Well one thing's for sure, I'm going to pay him a visit again this next weekend, or perhaps even tomorrow! Maybe I should take him some muffins to lighten the mood... or perhaps a bottle of Scotch. Ah! yes that would be the one.
Cheers to all you maggie MG20.7 owners out there, I now truly understand why exactly you like and enjoy your MG20's!
RJ

 

[LL21]

great post...i think Jacob heilbrunn used to have a massive setup...with Maggie 20s for a long, long time...and only in the last few years did he go to the big Wilson Alex 2s + dual Thors...and now XLF with dual thor. Given how great his electronics were at the time, that says something to me about how great the big Maggie's are.

 

[MrAcoustat]

great post...i think Jacob heilbrunn used to have a massive setup...with Maggie 20s for a long, long time...and only in the last few years did he go to the big Wilson Alex 2s + dual Thors...and now XLF with dual thor. Given how great his electronics were at the time, that says something to me about how great the big Maggie's are.

When you need 200K worth of speakers to better a 15K pair of Magnepans that is a tribute to a GREAT speaker.

 

[FrantzM]

When you need 200K worth of speakers to better a 15K pair of Magnepans that is a tribute to a GREAT speaker.

View attachment 18870

One of the few times I completely agree with you !

 

[bonzo75]

Really interested in auditioning 20.7. Haven't been a fan of the 3 pointer series, but if the 20.7 beats the AA I would like to go down that route as I would have a better used market and resale value if the need arose. None in the UK unfortunately

 

[MrAcoustat]

One of the few times I completely agree with you !

There is always a first time, I am honored.

 

[MtnHam]

When I was considering new planars 15 years ago, I researched and auditioned in depth all the major choices, including the then current Magnapan 20.1. I ended up choosing Sound Lab electrostatics. Many years and SL models later, I am still convinced they are superb, and perhaps the best. They are difficult to audition, but worth the effort. As a dealer, of course I am biased, but any WBF member is welcome to come visit and decide for themselves.

 

[FrantzM]

On the move by Jason Heilbrunn:

One has to wonder how Maggies 20.7 with similar/equivalent subwoofer would perform. The 20.7 price may actually be their biggest problem ... Audiophiles are conditioned to believe that more expensive = Better and these days with any speaker of value being pried near or above $50K ... Not too many would give the 20.7 a serious and unbiased audition in any comparison involving uber-speakers. Interestingly the late (and great) HP of TAS fame thought greatly of these 20.7

 

[MrAcoustat]

When I was considering new planars 15 years ago, I researched and auditioned in depth all the major choices, including the then current Magnapan 20.1. I ended up choosing Sound Lab electrostatics. Many years and SL models later, I am still convinced they are superb, and perhaps the best. They are difficult to audition, but worth the effort. As a dealer, of course I am biased, but any WBF member is welcome to come visit and decide for themselves.

I am sure that you remember the Sound Lab model that you chose over the 20.1 could you please let us know ????? Thank You

2015 - - - 2015 - - - 2015 - - - 2015 - - - 2015 - - - 2015 - - - 2015 - - - 2015

PS: Sound Lab model U-1PX = $45,190.00 us
Magnepan model 20.7 = $13,850.00 us

 

[MtnHam]

I am sure that you remember the Sound Lab model that you chose over the 20.1 could you please let us know ????? Thank You Magnepan model 20.7 = $13,850.00 us

Yes, I bought a used pair of Sound Lab M-2's, a far cry from today's vastly improved models. You don't need the top of the line (U-1PX) to experience this. Any PX version will do it, and they are a bargain on the used market.

In fact, there is an an incredible bargain available right now:
https://www.facebook.com/audiovisionssouth/posts/857052424312482

This is a steal! (No connection to me.)

 

[MrAcoustat]

Yes, I bought a used pair of Sound Lab M-2's, a far cry from today's vastly improved models. You don't need the top of the line (U-1PX) to experience this. Any PX version will do it, and they are a bargain on the used market.

In fact, there is an an incredible bargain available right now:
https://www.facebook.com/audiovisionssouth/posts/857052424312482

This is a steal! (No connection to me.)

Thank you very much for your answer,you are absolutely correct a pair of 845s for 10k is a steal, even if it was a connection to you it would still be a steal, it is always a pleasure to help a fellow audiophile SAVE money.

 

[GT Audio Works]

Magnetic vs electrostatic...which is the better or preferred ??

At the very least, people have no idea, as in "how can that room divider make sound ?"
Some people may know what those flat things are, but mistake one for the other or for the same thing, as in "I heard those Maggie electrostatics."
At the fanatical end of the question ( Hello Mr. Acoustat !) people have passionate allegiances and run an underground resistance for one side or the other of this war.
Simply put, what tickles your cochlea ?
It boils down to driving force and delegation of duty regarding how the amplified input is handled.
For a stat, the driving force developed by the static charge is low, but the diaphragm is very light and responsive and usually much larger. So the speaker can develop the needed get up and go.
For a Planar magnetic the diaphragm by design must be heavier and not as evenly driven, but the driving force is greater by the nature of the magnetic grid, so it can go just as well as the stat.
This is an issue of power to weight ratio. So on the even playing field of physics it would seem no yardage is gained by either team.
Now throw the unforeseen variable of the human ear/brain interaction into the mix and the fun begins.
The purist will argue the stat handles the entire signal, therefore the un-dissected output reaches our ears intact with a greater sense of realism in the space and time continuum.
I will agree, having owned some great stats, Acoustats, Quads and Sound Labs..the latter to my wife's dismay, and heard a whole bunch of Martin Logans. There was just something inherently right about sitting in that sweet spot.
Well if they were so great, why did I sell them all ?? I guess the short answer for me was the lack of dynamics. The sock of a kick drum or the thwak of a snare, or that complicated mix of attack, mid bass punch, resonance and decay of a bass string seemed lacking a bit to me.
I Loved the glorious mids, and could deal with the treble and dispersion issues, but in the end I was wanting for more.

My foray into the planar magnetics of the day started out innocently enough. I have owned Maggie 2.5R, MG3a and 3.5 as well as listening to a few Apogees. While I felt the bass and dynamics were better than the stats, but I still lusted for that dynamic cone impact and LF spl ability.
The treble dispersion was better, but they lacked that homogenous sound I loved so much with the stats. In particular I thought the gap between the planar woofer and ribbon tweeter was too great, leading to a discontinuity in the midrange.
It seemed that the separate tweeter and woofer panel with ubiquitous crossover giveth one thing, taketh away another.

Being of a tinkering nature, I proceeded to build various DIY Frankenstein's from parts of each with limited success.
That led me to building my own drivers. I believed I could go further with the multi way magnetic planar, as I felt the stat dynamic issue could only be remedied by massive panels that would not be welcome in all but a few homes. I did not want to give up the coherence of the full range xover less electrostatic panel. So after much trial and error I designed a planar magnetic panel that operated full range no xover,direct wired to the driving amp, with a lot more horsepower behind it than any stat could develop for the same size. The fact the panel is directly driven without a transformer as in a stat and the magnetic planar has the advantage of greater excursion and spl ability for its size appealed to me. To this I gently blended a ribbon tweeter of my design with a simple series capacitor to keep it happily singing with the panel. To that add active dynamic cone drivers in a sealed box that could keep up and not step on the toes of its dance partner but do what cones do best, give it the ability to tango with the best of them.

 

[MrAcoustat]

Magnetic vs electrostatic...which is the better or preferred ??

At the very least, people have no idea, as in "how can that room divider make sound ?"
Some people may know what those flat things are, but mistake one for the other or for the same thing, as in "I heard those Maggie electrostatics."
At the fanatical end of the question ( Hello Mr. Acoustat !) people have passionate allegiances and run an underground resistance for one side or the other of this war.
Simply put, what tickles your cochlea ?
It boils down to driving force and delegation of duty regarding how the amplified input is handled.
For a stat, the driving force developed by the static charge is low, but the diaphragm is very light and responsive and usually much larger. So the speaker can develop the needed get up and go.
For a Planar magnetic the diaphragm by design must be heavier and not as evenly driven, but the driving force is greater by the nature of the magnetic grid, so it can go just as well as the stat.
This is an issue of power to weight ratio. So on the even playing field of physics it would seem no yardage is gained by either team.
Now throw the unforeseen variable of the human ear/brain interaction into the mix and the fun begins.
The purist will argue the stat handles the entire signal, therefore the un-dissected output reaches our ears intact with a greater sense of realism in the space and time continuum.
I will agree, having owned some great stats, Acoustats, Quads and Sound Labs..the latter to my wife's dismay, and heard a whole bunch of Martin Logans. There was just something inherently right about sitting in that sweet spot.
Well if they were so great, why did I sell them all ?? I guess the short answer for me was the lack of dynamics. The sock of a kick drum or the thwak of a snare, or that complicated mix of attack, mid bass punch, resonance and decay of a bass string seemed lacking a bit to me.
I Loved the glorious mids, and could deal with the treble and dispersion issues, but in the end I was wanting for more.

My foray into the planar magnetics of the day started out innocently enough. I have owned Maggie 2.5R, MG3a and 3.5 as well as listening to a few Apogees. While I felt the bass and dynamics were better than the stats, but I still lusted for that dynamic cone impact and LF spl ability.
The treble dispersion was better, but they lacked that homogenous sound I loved so much with the stats. In particular I thought the gap between the planar woofer and ribbon tweeter was too great, leading to a discontinuity in the midrange.
It seemed that the separate tweeter and woofer panel with ubiquitous crossover giveth one thing, taketh away another.

Being of a tinkering nature, I proceeded to build various DIY Frankenstein's from parts of each with limited success.
That led me to building my own drivers. I believed I could go further with the multi way magnetic planar, as I felt the stat dynamic issue could only be remedied by massive panels that would not be welcome in all but a few homes. I did not want to give up the coherence of the full range xover less electrostatic panel. So after much trial and error I designed a planar magnetic panel that operated full range no xover,direct wired to the driving amp, with a lot more horsepower behind it than any stat could develop for the same size. The fact the panel is directly driven without a transformer as in a stat and the magnetic planar has the advantage of greater excursion and spl ability for its size appealed to me. To this I gently blended a ribbon tweeter of my design with a simple series capacitor to keep it happily singing with the panel. To that add active dynamic cone drivers in a sealed box that could keep up and not step on the toes of its dance partner but do what cones do best, give it the ability to tango with the best of them.

I agree 100% MrAcoustat is a fanatic and what is worst I am proud to be so.

 

[GT Audio Works]

If not for enthusiasm in this hobby, we might be listening to the same music on the same Bose radio.
What fun would that be ?

 

[LL21]

If not for enthusiasm in this hobby, we might be listening to the same music on the same Bose radio.
What fun would that be ?

Great to see you here and participating...thanks for your time. By the way, love your signature block!!! Chief Cook and Bottle Washer...with speakers delivered in 30 minutes or less!!! !!!

 

[bonzo75]

Greg, are your magnets neodynium?

 

[MrAcoustat]

Greg, are your magnets neodynium?

I'm not Greg but yes they are.

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