More Format Wars?

[TBone]

The only one that can tell which one sounds better to you is you yourself. If we are looking for a more general answer, it would require a statistically significant amount of controlled listening tests.

Perhaps we don't require all that much control of the listening process ... especially in regard to the claim that digital recording has been an "epic fail".

In that case; any difference between source and copy should be more than obvious.

tb1

 

[MylesBAstor]

Yes, it is. It might not be the answer you want, but it is most definitely an answer. Why don't you think so?

Well as they say the lack of a response is an snswer too.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I don't think anyone claims digital is "perfect". Digital, just like analog, has a limit on accuracy/resolution. The more interesting question is "which one is closer to the original signal, the analog or the digital copy?".

Anyone knows perfectly the answer to your basic question in simple technical terms - it is not an interesting question since long.

For me the interesting part is finding which copy leads to the most pleasant and rewarding sound reproduction - I will always uses copies, unless I record my own master tapes. And here we find that the simple technical terms are not enough to explain everything in audio.

 

[rockitman]

Fair enough - you are definitely not the only one preferring vinyl, but it is a subjective preference, and others might (and do) have different preferences.

I think if you had a well sorted vinyl rig in your system playing the same material from cd and vinyl you might change your mind. There are many reasons to keep people from going into vinyl...setup, getting all the records you want, ect. Those reasons almost stopped me. I now can setup tables with precision and access mint vinyl out of print on eBay. Most of the currently in print reissues sound great too. Software is not an issue if you start from scratch. I did it in 2010. I had no records from my old collection back in the 70's and early 80's.

 

[Julf]

Well as they say the lack of a response is an snswer too.

Maybe the unwillingness to accept an answer if it doesn't confirm to your expectations is an answer too.

 

[Julf]

I think if you had a well sorted vinyl rig in your system playing the same material from cd and vinyl you might change your mind.

And who knows, maybe a well sorted digital rig might change your mind.

 

[TBone]

I think if you had a well sorted vinyl rig playing the same material from cd and vinyl you might change you mind.

I have *exactly* that; and yes, it did change my mind (more-so, it educated me) ... not against digital.

tb1

edit: "exact" same material, not the commercial kind.

 

[Julf]

Perhaps we don't require all that much control of the listening process ... especially in regard to the claim that digital recording has been an "epic fail".

No, we don't need all that much control to form a personal, subjective opinion. But if we expect to be able to generalize that opinion into something more than "I think/feel that...", we we do need a bit of control and objective verifiability.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Maybe the unwillingness to accept an answer if it doesn't confirm to your expectations is an answer too.

So let's look at the ridiculousness of your response. Your answer is that the latest and greatest recording technology is no better than an ancient denigrated medium (by you). That's like saying you're smarter than a retard.

 

[Julf]

For me the interesting part is finding which copy leads to the most pleasant and rewarding sound reproduction

But then we might have to accept that "pleasant" and "rewarding" are not always the same as "accurate" and "perfect".

 

[microstrip]

Fair enough - you are definitely not the only one preferring vinyl, but it is a subjective preference, and others might (and do) have different preferences.

In the limited universe of this forum those who have high quality analog and digital systems have expressed their opinions for long time, exposing their systems and preferences. The professionals who have shown public evidence of their work nominating the recordings they have worked in also have expressed opinions.

IMHO readers should know now how to valuate opinions.

 

[Groucho]

All it needs is for someone to point us to the results of one of no doubt many DBTs that show that when a humble 16/44.1 AD/DA is inserted in the analogue chain, a night and day difference is heard. Or just a subtle one would do.

At the same time, they could demonstrate that there are no early digital recordings, say from the *1970s* that are revered by classical music enthusiasts, due to the inevitable lack of sound stage, musicality, imaging blah blah.

 

[TBone]

That's like saying you're smarter than a retard.

Myles, do you really have to go "there" to encourage fellow debate?

tb1

 

[Julf]

So let's look at the ridiculousness of your response. Your answer is that the latest and greatest recording technology is no better than an ancient denigrated medium (by you). That's like saying you're smarter than a retard.

Your question was not about "better". It was about "perfect". Neither analog or digital are perfect, because both have finite resolution.

 

[microstrip]

And who knows, maybe a well sorted digital rig might change your mind.

Rockitman has several times exposed what he thinks is a well sorted vinyl rig (his own) and his listening opinions about it in his system. Can you do expose with the same detail a complete system you consider a well sorted digital rig and that you have experience with? It would be a interesting contribution to this exchange of opinions.

 

[Julf]

IMHO readers should know now how to valuate opinions.

My apologies for occasionally wanting to clarify the difference between "I prefer the warm sound of analog" and "2 + 2 = 4" type of statements.

 

[rockitman]

All it needs is for someone to point us to the results of one of no doubt many DBTs that show that when a humble 16/44.1 AD/DA is inserted in the analogue chain, a night and day difference is heard. Or just a subtle one would do.

It's more than subtle. To me, digital in general sounds flat and lifeless when compared to analog. Caveat's, the original material was recorded in analog and the fact digital production many times does more damage to the music via use of compression and normalization. I think one's musical genre focus plays a part too. If your into modern digitally mastered music, the case to stay digital is much stronger.

 

[Julf]

Rockitman has several times exposed what he thinks is a well sorted vinyl rig (his own) and his listening opinions about it in his system. Can you do expose with the same detail a complete system you consider a well sorted digital rig and that you have experience with? It would be a interesting contribution to this exchange of opinions.

My current setup consists of a beagleboard-based custom computer running a stripped-down linux system, driving a hypex DLCP fronting upgraded Linn Isobariks actively driven by 4-way hypex nC400 amps. In both my subjective listening experience and my measurements it is superior both to the (upgraded) Revox B77 and the military research-spec Racal tape decks and various vinyl front-ends I have compared with.

 

[TBone]

Pono ... I find the Linn / Meridian saga around this venture interesting ...

After Neil and Gilad Tiefenbrun met, Gilad had this to say ...

As exciting as this all is, I have, however, one great fear; that the major labels may not be able to resist the temptation to put these studio masters out in a proprietary format. There remains a point of view among certain industry executives, totally misguided in my opinion, that the commercial potential can only be realised through an encrypted format, requiring people to buy new playback devices in order to experience these files.

I'm a big NY fan, but ...

tb1

 

[Julf]

To me, digital in general sounds flat and lifeless when compared to analog.

Just for the sake of discussion, and not at all implying it is the case, would it maybe be possible that that is caused by lack of the "soft and warm" compression and added harmonic distortion that typical analog systems exhibit?