"More people spend $€£100-400k on a system than 10-40k"...

[Loheswaran]

i doubt many retailers get into the 'no soup for you' mode. i think that is a myth. at the top of the food chain people buy stuff for all kinds of reasons, including how it might look in their 3rd house, their friend said it's cool, or the interior designer spec'd it.

the approach is 'will that be cash, check, or credit card?'.

next!

In the UK there is a total cretin of an importer of high-end gear, and a shop he sells stuff through who really is 'no soup' in fact I think there was debate on HiPlus that the then editor Roy Gregory had to respond to in defence of the individual. A total shame as he had the ears of a bat, and had superb taste - his systems did that very rare thing - make great sound at audio shows. I recall a very tetchy exchange when I enquired about a product - many years later I spoke to him again and he was all polite knowing the system I had (modest compared to your Mike...) at which point I calmly said that 'I would have bought from if you were not such a rude, patronising man who spoke to me like I was an imbecile when I first got into buying audio' (I was having my Pretty Woman moment).

 

[sbo6]

I would surmise, at least in the US many people's hi-fi is part of their HT system and as such, there is no dedicated 2 channel system. Not sure if this was captured in any survey. Also, as mentioned earlier, the younger folks spend more time on portable devices (phones, notebooks) and use blu tooth speakers when stationary, so again no dedicated 2 channel required. So the total # of listeners probably has increased along with population growth but with the advent of portability, wireless tech and long lasting batteries it also has the affect of reducing the # of traditional audiophiles (like us) who sit, listen and truly care about quality audio. And the folks like us who care about quality of audio are willing to pay $$ especially as we age, the Boomers/Gen X have the $ not the 25 years old with 6 figures in college debt..

 

[assessor43]

I would not doubt it. There is some pretty good vintage gear out there that can sound pretty close to as good as systems costing 15K new. For about 3K, you can get pretty convincing system. Why would someone spend 15K when they can get pretty close with 3K? They just made better stuff years ago. I wonder how much that cost would be today for some of the equipment. Point to point wiring on many pieces dating back to the fifties and sixties not mention some of the speaker designs.

People that are spending over 100K are in my experiences listening to a lot of classical. This is where a system like this shines.

 

[sbo6]

I would not doubt it. There is some pretty good vintage gear out there that can sound pretty close to as good as systems costing 15K new. For about 3K, you can get pretty convincing system. Why would someone spend 15K when they can get pretty close with 3K? They just made better stuff years ago. I wonder how much that cost would be today for some of the equipment. Point to point wiring on many pieces dating back to the fifties and sixties not mention some of the speaker designs.

People that are spending over 100K are in my experiences listening to a lot of classical. This is where a system like this shines.

Sorry I disagree. You get much more for your $ today in audio than ever before. Digital can provide excellent sound with a DAC <3K, cost conscious speakers like Revel's line, Paradigm and Elac with much lower distortion than "vintage gear", same goes for amps and preamp. Better yet, go integrated for more $ for your $.

Also, WRT >100K for classical, for some but not all. Mine is MSRP >$100K and I rarely listen to classical. Also, a well set up system irrespective of price will shine with any music, it's more the recording than music type.

 

[XCop5089]

In the UK there is a total cretin of an importer of high-end gear, and a shop he sells stuff through who really is 'no soup' in fact I think there was debate on HiPlus that the then editor Roy Gregory had to respond to in defence of the individual. A total shame as he had the ears of a bat, and had superb taste - his systems did that very rare thing - make great sound at audio shows. I recall a very tetchy exchange when I enquired about a product - many years later I spoke to him again and he was all polite knowing the system I had (modest compared to your Mike...) at which point I calmly said that 'I would have bought from if you were not such a rude, patronising man who spoke to me like I was an imbecile when I first got into buying audio' (I was having my Pretty Woman moment).

If this is true, the importer must be some kind of audio freak!

 

[assessor43]

"You get much more for your $ today in audio than ever before"

Sorry, I disagree with this. I do not know how often you listen to vintage gear but there is some pretty darn good equipment out there. Heck you can get original Quad ESLs very affordably these days and they arguably do some things better than most of todays speakers. Looks at the SME 3012R that is spoken about on this forum. It is priced over 3K these days but you can still get an SME 3009 for very reasonable and it is quite the value. I listen to vintage equipment often and sometimes I cannot believe the system cost my friend under 2K. It is a real eye opener and ear opener for that matter

I do agree with your comment that states you can get more for your money today in audio as you can buy a great vintage system for 2.5 k that rivals systems costing much more. Your right!

 

[Lee]

We've been studying this as I just became President of NextScreen, the publisher of TAS and hifi+. It's not true at all. For several luxury speaker maker the number of units sold per price point goes down as you move up in price. There are some rare exceptions where one key product may outsell a lower-priced one but it is rare. The distribution is what you think it is.

 

[Lee]

Sorry I disagree. You get much more for your $ today in audio than ever before. Digital can provide excellent sound with a DAC <3K, cost conscious speakers like Revel's line, Paradigm and Elac with much lower distortion than "vintage gear", same goes for amps and preamp. Better yet, go integrated for more $ for your $.

Also, WRT >100K for classical, for some but not all. Mine is MSRP >$100K and I rarely listen to classical. Also, a well set up system irrespective of price will shine with any music, it's more the recording than music type.

True. The vintage guys' claim of sonic superiority doesn't hold up. Technology is advancing on everything.

 

[Elliot G.]

True. The vintage guys' claim of sonic superiority doesn't hold up. Technology is advancing on everything.

I totally agree with you Lee we are living in the Golden Era of Audio gear. There is a tremendous amount of great sounding gear at all the price ranges. There is way too much conspiracy theory on the internet that just is not true. As someone that has been around for a very long time I can confidently say that the quality of the gear in every phase has dramatically increased however the ability of it to be deciphered IMHO has not.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Golden age was around 2000 .

My next buy might be ML no 40 , its got basically the 32 pre amp and 30.6 dac included , movies /music.
The time I ran after best lists / reviewers is long gone.
Its not about being better , its about being entertained the right way

 

[andromedaaudio]

It all got a bit cleaner , but more musical ???i highly doubt it .
Everybody is listening to tape and records again lol , wauw what a progress

 

[andromedaaudio]

Now if i was a dealer.....
That would be another story lol.
Id say you start getting good sound at 300K and from that level on it only gets better

 

[spiritofmusic]

Now if i was a dealer.....
That would be another story lol.
Id say you start getting good sound at 300K and from that level on it only gets better

Well, you gotta keep out the riff raff!

 

[andromedaaudio]

I think this is driven by Chinese sales
Chinese are very status driven .
Buy what says the best in the absolute sound list and you re in that ballpark

 

[andromedaaudio]

Well, you gotta keep out the riff raff!

I like having a quit store

 

[Loheswaran]

U

If this is true, the importer must be some kind of audio freak!

u may day that but I couldn’t possibly comment on that...

 

[andromedaaudio]

I think if you have a not to big of a room its possible to get great sound for not to much money.
Its possible also to get FR sound that way .
A very well designed 3 way speaker should be able do the whole range 20 - 20 khz, with a room to match its not that an expensive system.

Now with a big room and big well designed speakers to properly energize that it thats gonna cost you

 

[Loheswaran]

I totally agree with you Lee we are living in the Golden Era of Audio gear. There is a tremendous amount of great sounding gear at all the price ranges. There is way too much conspiracy theory on the internet that just is not true. As someone that has been around for a very long time I can confidently say that the quality of the gear in every phase has dramatically increased however the ability of it to be deciphered IMHO has not.

Whenever u move forward u have more technology and body of knowledge - that said the ROHS for instance changed important things relating to soldering. Very important - Krell took a few generations to match their ‘lead solder’ amps. The mares/connoisseur can’t be made in the same way. The jfets in the vendetta scp2a aren’t made anymore. Direct drive motors of the 70’s calibre are extortionate now. What’s different with carts from the 70’s to now? The hollow cantilever mm’s of the 70’s can’t be made now - koetsus are the same essentially - sme 3012r arm is attested by Karmeli as the most natural arm... need I go on? Yes the leading edge may extend possibilities - but that is stating the obvious. But manufacturing laws and in fact small engineering costs means far less of a blank canvass than you think when weighed against he body of knowledge now - it may also explain why high end manufacturing is getting so expensive as well - lack of the craftsmen and technicians to build the gear.

 

[IanG-UK]

If this is true, the importer must be some kind of audio freak!

You are not alone. I enquired about a hugely expensive equipment rack and asked for the external and internal dimensions. I was told that I didn't need those. Hence I replied that I did not need the rack!

 

[spiritofmusic]

My "fave" experience was being told by a distributor/dealer for a pricey room acoustics treatment that my room ABSOLUTELY needed dozens of these panels despite my protestations that my base sound was hugely acceptable, and him not having visited the room. And that my choice in gear was "poor".

I actually had a mini panic attack on the day he was due to visit. Was I worried he was indeed right? Or did I not want a humourless egocentric lording it in my own property?

Suffice to say he hasn't got a sniff of my cash.