Moving away from box speakers: Diesis Audio vs Avantgarde Acoustic?

[abeidrov]

Hi everyone,

I’ve read too many posts by Bonzo and decided to move away from the traditional box speakers .

Unfortunately, I don’t have a dedicated room. The system is in my living room. The room is about 35 m², but it is combined with kitchen, so the listening area is just about 20 m². There is no wall on the right side and a big window on the left side. I sit on a sofa which is next to the back wall, so there is no space behind. As you can see in the picture, the front wall is not straight and there is a built in cupboard on the right side of the wall. The distance to the current speakers (Sashas) is 2.85 meters, 2.60 between the speakers.

So far, I’ve narrowed my choice to Avantgarde Uno SD and Diesis Caput Mundi. But maybe Caput Mundi would be too much of a speaker for my room, and I should consider Aura? I have many questions and concerns, but hopefully I am moving in the right direction.

My main concern about Avantgarde is the complexity of the setup. My understanding is they are much more demanding to correct setup compared to Diesis. In case of Diesis, I am concerned about my listening area size and the base extension compared to what I’m used to (Sashas) and I don’t have any room for subs.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
Aziz

 

[Argonaut]

Budget ? … Could you live without the large glass fronted display cases ? As that would afford to you more options re speaker position and would , i suspect , provide better sound in your room .

 

[abeidrov]

Budget ? … Could you live without the large glass fronted display cases ? As that would afford to you more options re speaker position and would , i suspect , provide better sound in your room .

About 60k euro.
No, we have too much staff with 2 children and just 3 rooms.

 

[Argonaut]

About 60k euro.
No, we have too much staff with 2 children and just 3 rooms.

Understood … I like the Diesis , also perhaps consider one of the Odeon range https://www.odeon-audio.com/ and also Sadurni with their Staccato GT coming in under budget https://sadurniacoustics.com/shop/ols/products/staccato-gt-horn-system ( For my part I rather like the Flash Gordon Styling )

 

[Golum]

Not to add the complexity to the mix I would ping Mike from Suncoast audio as he had Avantgarde horns and now Tobians so he might give some advice on the difference of these two - as I would add Tobian as such (12SE or even 15SE) and with the funds available and your electronics list for sure I would give a thought on Clarysis panels or panels as such...
Just my two cents and happy hunting.
And yes - Ked is right - once you hear proper horns and panels it's difficult to go back to box ones

 

[abeidrov]

Not add the complexity to the mix I would ping Mike from Suncoast audio as he had Avantgarde horns and now Tobians so he might give some advice on the difference of these two - as I would add Tobian as such (12SE or even 15SE) and with the funds available and your electronics list for sure I would give a thought on Clarysis panels or panels as such...
Just my two cents and happy hunting.
And yes - Ked is right - once you hear proper horns and panels it's difficult to go back to box ones

I’ve thought of both brands, but they are not available at where I am based.

 

[abeidrov]

I am concerned that Caput Mundi would be too big for my room. Are there any recommendations about a room size and distance from speaker from Diesis?

 

[Phantom-Audio]

Where are you based?

 

[bonzo75]

Hi everyone,

I’ve read too many posts by Bonzo

Lucky you

 

[Hear Here]

Horns seem to be particularly suitable in "difficult" rooms where wall / window reflections are very difference left speaker vs right speaker. Your room looks as if horns would be a good choice.

My first horns were Avantgarde Unos from 2002 (chosen by Stereophile as Speaker of the Year) and the model has morphed over time to become the Uno SD. The room I bought the Unos for (320 sq ft) was a similar area to your own room and I was very happy with the sound, after previous ATC 50 Active and KEF Reference 107 speakers. So much so that I've stuck with the brand and now enjoy Duo XDs.

The big advantages of horns such as AGs is their ability to sound great in most rooms (they are very directional so reflections are less problematic) and the incredible imaging they provide, albeit at a small sweet spot. Speakers can be placed where you want them, so this is less dictated by room features than box and in particular electrostatics, but their toe-in and maybe tilt are very important to get right for best sound. I see from your photo that existing speakers are toed in towards the listening chair - a good starting point with AGs.

Would you be looking towards the "semi-active" version with powered bass drivers, or the iTron fully active version and no need for external amplifier? I'm considering the DUO GT and would opt for the iTron version, although I've not yet listened to it. I think your budget probably allows for this version - and you could of course sell your existing power amp if needs be!

I'm unfamiliar with the other horn systems you are considering or the ones mentioned by others, but another brand you could investigate that you should be able to source is hORNS of Poland. I've only heard one of their bigger stand-mounts, but I was very impressed by their sound. A floor stander may be an option worth looking into.

Regarding AG's DSP software, from reading the setting up guidelines of the new G3 version, compared with the XD version that I have, it seems to have been simplified, so I guess not a major concern. Certainly there are lots of tweaking options, but you'll probably find that one of the default option will offer a great sound without the need for measuring mics, etc. I have found with the XD software that using only the back-panel setting provides a truly great sound.

One other consideration - Avantgarde speakers hold their value exceptionally well and probably much more so than more obscure horn brands. I bought my Unos new (with a generous dealer discount) in 2002 and sold them 17 years later for EXACTLY what I paid for them.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

Look at a second-hand Aurora Aries Cerat; Brand new they are much higher.

Classic Audio Loudspeakers Field Coils are Highly recommended too.

 

[exupgh12]

If you're aiming for a natural sound in a space with challenging acoustics like yours, Diesis speakers should provide that organic quality you're looking for. To my ears, the Avantgarde speakers have a more pronounced coloration, while the Diesis sounds more natural. Given the limitations in your room, the Diesis sound profile might integrate more smoothly, delivering a more satisfying listening experience overall.

 

[abeidrov]

Below is another picture of my room, that should give you a better idea of its challenges. Based on this picture what is your view of the best option out of the 3 room wise?
1. Avantgarde UNO SD
2. Diesis Caput Mundi
3. Clarisys Minuet

Thanks in advance,
Aziz

 

[bonzo75]

Below is another picture of my room that should give you a better idea of its challenges. Based on this picture what is your view of the best option out of the 3 room wise?
1. Avantgarde UNO SD
2. Diesis Caput Mundi
3. Clarisys Minuet

Thanks in advance,
Aziz
View attachment 139753

What’s the length and breadth

 

[abeidrov]

What’s the length and breadth

It’s 2.85 m from listening position to speakers and 2.60 m between the speakers. Or you mean the room dimensions? Which walls and how to measure? Only the windowed wall is normal.

 

[adyc]

Below is another picture of my room, that should give you a better idea of its challenges. Based on this picture what is your view of the best option out of the 3 room wise?
1. Avantgarde UNO SD
2. Diesis Caput Mundi
3. Clarisys Minuet

Thanks in advance,
Aziz
View attachment 139753

UNO SD as both other speakers are open baffle. They need space behind them for best performance. Also iTron version. You can sell Mephisto to fund the purchase.

 

[bonzo75]

It’s 2.85 m from listening position to speakers and 2.60 m between the speakers. Or you mean the room dimensions? Which walls and how to measure? Only the windowed wall is normal.

Just front to back wall and side to side near the front wall

 

[bonzo75]

how to measure?

This is a key skill and I charge to advise for that.

(Usually from the base)

 

[abeidrov]

Just front to back wall and side to side near the front wall

Front to back is easy: I’ll just measure the wall which has window. The front wall has a built in cupboard which is diagonal to the wall. So where to measure?

 

[abeidrov]

Also, the distance from the left speaker to the back wall is less than distance from the right speaker to the front wall. I’ll post another picture of the back wall in the evening.