MSB Select II arrival

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Fantastic news, Mike. Look forward to reading more.
 

microstrip

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(...) on every familiar recording there are passages where my previous reference is now revealed to have had distortion, and now it's removed. this part really blows my mind.

the noise floor is lower, I'm hearing so much more ambience and sense of dimensionality and feelings of openness and a direct connection to the event, and so much delicate life like detail and the feeling the air is alive.

I'm going to go back to enjoying the music for now. I will try my best to list some recordings and get into details about them. that is not an easy thing for me, but I will do my best.

It is really great that you are feeling that way - and in every recording. It is a great experience. Curiously we very soon adapt to it and consider it is natural. But the first time it can be even disturbing!

Really looking forward to read about the details of the recordings.
 

Mike Lavigne

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It is really great that you are feeling that way - and in every recording. It is a great experience. Curiously we very soon adapt to it and consider it is natural. But the first time it can be even disturbing!

today's experience did have a 'disturbing' aspect to it I must admit. it was much more than expected and I'm still trying to connect the dots.

I agree it is typical to adjust to a new reference and it ceases to seem 'new' and our excitement diminishes over time. interesting that in the case of my last 10 weeks with the Select II I was not yet near that point where there was not a bit of 'awe' in my listening. maybe it's just that I was able to continue to find music on my server or Tidal that was 'fresh meat' to my ears and I still had the previous reference in my memory.

and now I've moved on a ways from that.

Really looking forward to read about the details of the recordings.

I know you are.:D
 

asiufy

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Hi Mike!

I'm glad you're enjoying the new powerbase this quickly, and the timing worked out for you! :)

I remember when Vince mentioned they were playing with mono (two) power supplies at the factory, and the improvement it had on the already spectacular SELECT... I believe he mentioned something that even with the mono bases, they felt they haven't really reached the proverbial "ceiling", that there's even more to be had out of that architecture/platform, with the new Hybrid DAC modules... Now let's see what the new Renderer will bring :)

Enjoy!
alex
 

Folsom

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So the extra powerbase, is it a powerbase per channel or something else?
 

Mike Lavigne

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So the extra powerbase, is it a powerbase per channel or something else?

from the MSB website;

Two Mono Powerbases

Upgrade the standard Dual Powerbase to two independent higher quality Mono Powerbases. One Mono Powerbase will supply power to the digital side of the Select DAC and the other Mono Powerbase will provide power to the analog side. This is one of the most significant upgrades available for the Select DAC.

I originally bought mine with the dual (analog and digital power supplies in one box and one power cord) powerbase which is standard. with the Mono, 2 box approach, there are two power cords.

one potential 'next step' for the Select II would be to then have the dac itself become a two box affair with one box per channel. so you would have 4 boxes then.
 

Young Skywalker

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Going to a dual mono DAC configuration would create more problems than it solves. It is critical that the hybrid DAC modules are as close to the clock as possible.

Having one power supply dedicated to the analog processing and another for the digital represents the ultimate theoretical solution.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Going to a dual mono DAC configuration would create more problems than it solves. It is critical that the hybrid DAC modules are as close to the clock as possible.

Having one power supply dedicated to the analog processing and another for the digital represents the ultimate theoretical solution.

well, then maybe what they could do would be to separate the digital circuits and the analog circuits into 2 or even 3 boxes. so you could have a dac, right analog and left analog box. your dac chips would stay with the clock, and all the analog would be separate. this is the concept of the CH Precision 3 box Mono Dac.....which was supposed to be in production Q1 of this year......but it's still not being produced. there is also a CH Precision T1 clock that can be added to that.

never heard either product, we are talking concepts here.

when you buy a product that has a 10 year upgrade program, you think about what could be done, not what makes sense.:rolleyes:
 

spiritofmusic

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Mike, if I can humbly make a suggestion.
I've been running my Stacores passive CLD/air isolators/Rollerblock lateral isolating platforms under various bits of gear.
It comfortably exceeds the active Kuraka piezo electric sensor platform I directly a/b.d.
I've then gone on to try the Stacore under cdp, under pre, and then cdp and pre stacked vertically on the Stacore with a Svelte Shelf to semi isolate the topmost stacked component.
Isolating each component individually has been absolutely wonderful to the extent that I'm compelled to go Stacores on all my gear, 6-7 platforms.
However stacking gear was fine for the component directly on the Stacore but nowhere near as effective for the topmost component.
I put this down to the fact that the Stacore isolates from the environment as well as from the component itself, and so to maximise the latter, the component must sit directly on the Stacore.
And so I suspect Mike all your gear must be as well, except in yr case Herzans not Stacores.
 

koalakoala

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Aug 10, 2017
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Congratulations Mike!

Delightful new toys!!

You mentioned the CH mono. Now CH has this X1 dedicated single-component power supply unit. 3 box dac + T1 clock + D1SE transport + 5 x X1 power supplies - that's a 10-headed monstrous hydra!!! Real fun isn't it...
 

Blue58

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And while you're there Mike,^ get that SGM off the floor. Surely another Herzan or a Stacore would further elevate sound quality and costs pennies compared to what you've invested in the MSB.
 

koalakoala

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Aug 10, 2017
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Don't know what Mike would think if I bother him with more suggestions like

- putting Select II directly on the Herzan
- putting the 2 mono bases on separate rack levels
- bypassing the Dartzeel pre altogether, driving 458 direct...(with -6db native dsd option)
 

Mike Lavigne

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Mike, if I can humbly make a suggestion.
I've been running my Stacores passive CLD/air isolators/Rollerblock lateral isolating platforms under various bits of gear.
It comfortably exceeds the active Kuraka piezo electric sensor platform I directly a/b.d.
I've then gone on to try the Stacore under cdp, under pre, and then cdp and pre stacked vertically on the Stacore with a Svelte Shelf to semi isolate the topmost stacked component.
Isolating each component individually has been absolutely wonderful to the extent that I'm compelled to go Stacores on all my gear, 6-7 platforms.
However stacking gear was fine for the component directly on the Stacore but nowhere near as effective for the topmost component.
I put this down to the fact that the Stacore isolates from the environment as well as from the component itself, and so to maximise the latter, the component must sit directly on the Stacore.
And so I suspect Mike all your gear must be as well, except in yr case Herzans not Stacores.

not all gear is equally effected by decoupling. the dense and solid dart pre is the least effected piece of gear I've ever had in terms of either passive or active vibration treatment. and I've found that the top level gear in a stack gets the most advantage. this happened with my Playback Designs MPS-5, with the Aqua Formula DAC, and with the Aqua La Diva transport.

And while you're there Mike,^ get that SGM off the floor. Surely another Herzan or a Stacore would further elevate sound quality and costs pennies compared to what you've invested in the MSB.

Don't know what Mike would think if I bother him with more suggestions like

- putting Select II directly on the Herzan
- putting the 2 mono bases on separate rack levels
- bypassing the Dartzeel pre altogether, driving 458 direct...(with -6db native dsd option)

as my previous comments note; my intention was to have a separate shelf for each unit but the height did not allow for that choice. so I've optimized things for the moment.

regarding stacking the dart pre and the dac box on the Herzan; yes it's a compromise; but it's the best choice I have at the moment. and the dart pre chassis is so dense and solid that it compromises this approach less that almost any piece of gear I can think of. and I'm using BDR cones under the dart pre and under the Dac box too, so any compliance is minimal.

I'm at an in between point with my whole rack set-up right now. there are any number of directions I'm contemplating. I might purchase a whole new different rack system, or expand my Adona rack sideways to allow for more shelves and a separate shelf for each box and the possibility of a separate active unit for each as my budget allows (and I'm thinking about where my dollars will take me farthest).

I need to plan strategically for an end game of how many boxes I will have (going forward) including my server and grounding boxes (Tripoint and Entreq) now sitting on the concrete floor (each of which are certainly tweaked now as they sit in terms of platforms.....a concrete floor has it's attributes as a support).

as far as bypassing the dart pre and going direct; now that I have the mono powerbases I will be trying that, both with a long set of RCA interconnects to the amps, and using 'rca <-> bnc' adapters to using my Zeel intercomnnects to my amps (which is what use from my dart pre to my dart amps now). I will also try the adapters with a short zeel interconnect to the dart pre instead of the Tara GME IC's.

that is my 'next thing' to do.

bottom line; everything sounds heavenly on all formats (digtal, vinyl and tape) as it is, so I do have time to make sure my next move is the right one.
 
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PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Mike, if I can humbly make a suggestion.
I've been running my Stacores passive CLD/air isolators/Rollerblock lateral isolating platforms under various bits of gear.
It comfortably exceeds the active Kuraka piezo electric sensor platform I directly a/b.d.
I've then gone on to try the Stacore under cdp, under pre, and then cdp and pre stacked vertically on the Stacore with a Svelte Shelf to semi isolate the topmost stacked component.
Isolating each component individually has been absolutely wonderful to the extent that I'm compelled to go Stacores on all my gear, 6-7 platforms.
However stacking gear was fine for the component directly on the Stacore but nowhere near as effective for the topmost component.
I put this down to the fact that the Stacore isolates from the environment as well as from the component itself, and so to maximise the latter, the component must sit directly on the Stacore.
And so I suspect Mike all your gear must be as well, except in yr case Herzans not Stacores.

Marc, what do you mean by the statement in bold? I understand that the isolation platform (active or passive) isolates the effects of the environment from the component, ie ground borne vibrations, but the latter claim has me confused.

I am going to copy this post in its entirety and move it to the "active/passive" thread as it is way off topic for this thread. Sorry Mike.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Congratulations Mike!

Delightful new toys!!

You mentioned the CH mono. Now CH has this X1 dedicated single-component power supply unit. 3 box dac + T1 clock + D1SE transport + 5 x X1 power supplies - that's a 10-headed monstrous hydra!!! Real fun isn't it...

yes, with CH Precision those boxes can be almost unlimited in count.......and higher total list price than the current 'ultimate' stereo Select II. but; the CH Precision still does not do dsd natively so half my media would need up-sampling.

maybe the 'mega' CH digital would play in the same league as the fully optimized MSB Select II, I've not heard it.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Ilya Itin, Debussy, Preludes Book 1, Wave Kinetics Records

ok, for the last 30 minutes I've been listening to this native Quad dsd (4xdsd) solo piano recording. you can also get it at 2xdsd and single dsd (and.....they also recorded a 1/2" 30ips tape master off the same mic feed too, 8 reels worth for 'later'). over the last 2 years I've used this amazing recording as a deep look into the musical picture. it's mesmerizing and beautiful as music, but it's depth of information, harmonic and dynamic shading is without peer in my experience. it's a close mic'd concert grand piano played at full tilt boggie. I've played it hundreds of times.

and what I'm hearing is game changing in depth of textural detail. this is as much like tape to my ears, as vinyl. and the way it injects air and floating localized energy into the notes is remarkable. you hear the note played and then it just opens up more than you've yet heard it, but then it keeps opening more and more, then you think it's done and it just goes deeper.

at shows when I heard the MSB Select II (with mono powerbases) demos, I heard these same types of things to a much less degree, more of a hint, or tease. the media and systems were not as capable. I always wondered what this dac might do if you took the restrictors off of it. or even played the highest resolution dynamic music. this recording demonstrates it so clearly. the musical focus and granular delicacy are completely right as 'live', yet they fully hang in there on the most robust crescendos. and on my system you 'feel' this music physically. the piano is in the room as an instrument, it's mass is evident. you feel it's power and command of the room.

you keep expecting that the texture and delicacy will congeal on the peaks, but it just sails through those moments with never a whimper or lost step. really incredible, that was always the difference with the best vinyl or tape, it held together.

I'm still struggling with my attempts to find words to describe what my ears are hearing, and I hope that I got my intentions across.
 
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earlinarizona

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Jul 17, 2010
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You wonder if there would be any improvement if you use a piece like the Stromtank and use in in battery powered mode and not from the wall. Each step you are talking about is adding a little more but sounds like as a whole is making everything better. You never talked about Digital and tape in the same sentence but in the last post you did. This is saying a lot about the sound you are hearing. Remember when the new renderer comes out it could move up again and next software update can do it again. My guess the MSB and your turntable are now closer than ever. IS it to the point if no turntable is there for comparison, you would have no problem with full digital listen? To me your posts are hinting the differences are getting smaller and smaller.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Mike, I'm seeing a fairly major "call" by you imminently.
It'll be quite something if you say the 3-box Select II is pretty much the equal of vinyl in all major respects.
Kudos to you if you're finally "crossing the rubicon".
I actually don't have a great deal of time for Native Hi Rez or audiophile labels in general.
Just me, no criticism of those like you who love the stuff.
I find the choice of music lacking and the performances all a bit "just perfect".
I'm w Al M in that "all the music" is on 16/44 w the piece you mentioned as a bit of frippery.
It's one of the reasons I won't move to tape other than the cost.
I'd rather hear a Horowitz or Rattle conducted recording than something done to satisfy a small number of Hi Rez aficionados.
Sorry if that sounds like I'm pouring cold water in yr findings, but I'm sure I speak for many on these forums.
But truly great if these pieces now match vinyl.
Where I would love you to comment is if this levelling of the digital v analog terrain is equally reached on Golden Age classic recordings, so any number of 50s and 60s classical greats, Tommy by The Who, Miles' In A Silent Way, Zep on 45rpm, modern stuff like London Grammar, Porcupine Tree etc.
Now if you relay in the next few wks that these and many more staples from the past and currently really match analog when played on yr Msb, I'll really be beyond impressed.
 
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morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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and I get into all that system set-up stuff because I am absolutely stunned by what I've been hearing from the addition of the Mono Powerbases over these last 3 hours. and trying to wrap my head around it I have a hard time thinking it's all the power supplies. my sense is that while the new dual powerbases get most of the credit, it's likely not that simple. we are operating at such a high level of information that everything matters.

what am I hearing? this is a quantum leap. I'm going to avoid the whole vinyl question for now as I have to be careful until I actually A/B recordings, but I do think I'm now at a spot where it makes sense to do that.

that out of the way, I'd say this step up is much more wide ranging in it's implications than I ever would have expected. besides clearly (not subtly) better everywhere, I'd say 'commanding'.....'authoritative'....'grounded/sure-footed'......'bigger/bolder'. before I might say that some tubed dacs have more bloom and in some ways more tonal density. not anymore. the dual powerbases simply take things to a different dimension of performance in my system. listening to familiar tracks there is much more texture and micro-dynamics. the word real and life-like hit me everywhere. the amount of projected musical energy is just in a whole different place from any digital I have heard. the music floats above yet is grounded in power. super holographic.

the bass is better in every way, more articulation and texture, more tonally rich, goes deeper and with more slam and weight. the nuance and delicacy is a few degrees better which results in clearly more ease and flow. on every familiar recording there are passages where my previous reference is now revealed to have had distortion, and now it's removed. this part really blows my mind.

the noise floor is lower, I'm hearing so much more ambience and sense of dimensionality and feelings of openness and a direct connection to the event, and so much delicate life like detail and the feeling the air is alive.

I'm going to go back to enjoying the music for now. I will try my best to list some recordings and get into details about them. that is not an easy thing for me, but I will do my best.

I am sure a big part of what you hear there and a big part of what I am hearing with the AC Kassandra is power supply. This is why Kassandra weighs 60kg...ultra stable and generous power.
 

koalakoala

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Aug 10, 2017
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You wonder if there would be any improvement if you use a piece like the Stromtank and use in in battery powered mode and not from the wall. Each step you are talking about is adding a little more but sounds like as a whole is making everything better. You never talked about Digital and tape in the same sentence but in the last post you did. This is saying a lot about the sound you are hearing. Remember when the new renderer comes out it could move up again and next software update can do it again. My guess the MSB and your turntable are now closer than ever. IS it to the point if no turntable is there for comparison, you would have no problem with full digital listen? To me your posts are hinting the differences are getting smaller and smaller.

Yes I think a Stromtank battery could be an upgrade for select ii
Here is a photo I took at the recent Hong Kong Audio Show - the new half height S2500
 

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